Chris Durden's "apocryphal tales"

Paul Cherubini monarch at
Fri Jun 15 14:19:36 EDT 2001

Neil Jones wrote:

> I apologise for breaking with tradition. One of these guys used to be on
> this list and was NOT noted for his polite, rational, sensible, style.
> There is a tradition of not mentioning his name for fear he will return.
> You can find more in the archive if you have a strong enough stomach or
> even a taste for the wierd.

Thomas Kral 
Wed, 20 Mar 1996 21:55:59 -0700 
"Re: British Butterfly Conservation ...and Neil Jones" 

One of the best points I can make about the problems caused by
certain overzealous individuals, claiming to be
environmentalists, but in reality are doing much more harm to
environmental causes than good, is perfectly illustrated below. According to
the March 15 posting by Neil Jones of the organization known
as The British Butterfly Conservation, he would have you believe that my
comments are untruthful, while Mr. Jones represents "rational" thinking.
Most amusing is his claim that he does not wish to see collecting
banned. Lets examine the accuracy of Neil Jones' claims. I'll start by
quoting Dr. Robert M. Pyle in the December 1995 issue of the _JOURNAL OF THE 
LEPIDOPTERISTS' SOCIETY, Vol 49, No. 4, page 406.

"The British group Butterfly Conservation, however, has adopted an
anti-collecting stance that has alienated and tarred many entomologists.
I hope this sort of needless polarization can be avoided among North
American collectors and watchers."

Though Dr. Pyle may have disclosed this fact to us only recently, myself,
and so many others logged onto LEPS-L have known this for quite some
time. Not all members of this organization are anti-collecting, but
certainly its leaders, like Neil Jones, have directly implied and even
stated this fact - and please don't try and argue with a statement made
by Pyle - Mr. Jones you HATE buttefly collectors. Having noted Mr. jones
behavior back from March of 1995 on LEPS-L, curiously, I began printing
and saving most all his postings. I have made him into a case study
infact. Anyone desiring to see where the faults lie, by all means,
please retrieve some of the original messages from LEPS-L made by Jones
and myself.

Oh my, how Mr. Jones can distort things. He would have you believe
that I'm some racist, among other slanderous remarks. Here are the FACTS
which one may retieve from LEPS-L beginning with Neil Jones' unprovoked
attack on me on January 11, 1996 - notice Neil's name calling where he
specifically states "To continue the animal theme (although I prefer a
less asinine one) he is like a turkey clamoring for an early
Thanksgiving." Of course I responded on January 13, by rebuttting his
name callingby pointing out that he is indeed a radical, and closed my
message with "Still keeping with the animal theme... Now its time to give
that plucky British Turkey , neil Jones, a good dressing down..."
Perahps my mistake was in trying to fight fire with fire, but somehow Mr.
Jones claims that calling each other "turkeys" is somehow racist - Come
on Neil, get rid of your propaganda mentality - AND REMEMBER THAT EVERY
beligerently argued with others on LEPS-L as well, so its obviously a
personality defect of his) - Now we are getting somewhere.

Neil Jones minces up quotes I made and slants them biasly (just like
the USFWS does!). For those desiring to see the entire messages he picks
the quotes from, look at our postings back and forth, starting january 14
to January 30 on LEPS-L. To briefly summarize, I successfully pointed
out that Mr. Jones' claim of a moth's alleged extinction by
"overcollecting" was nothing more than hearsay - akin to the Loch Ness
monster myth - gosh, lots of people claim they have seen "Nessie" and
swear of its existence, but no-one has ever produced a specimen (proof),
and recent scientific research at Loch Ness has debunked the myth -
sounds alot like the "overcollecting myth" regarding bug collecting -
lots of people swear by it, yet nobody ever proves anything!!!

But Neil jones' snide remarks and attacks on others have had a far
more sinister outcome... A perusal of some of Mr. Jones' (and other
Butterfly Conservation radicals), back from June 3, 1995 to about July 6
in LEPS-L where he discusses the dilemna of _Eurodryas aurinia_(a common
paleartic butterfly of vast distribution, but now rare in Britain & a few
other W Europpean countries), at a site called "Cwmgwrach", slated to be
turned into a coal mine by Celtic Power. Perhaps they could have
addressed the problem seriously, BUT INSTEAD they talk about "witches"
and that "King Arthur's band of warriors are sleeping nearby", add in the
"tree people" (whom I refer to as "tree hippies" for a more accurate
term) run amok and protesting at the site, and we have a real joke fest!
Too bad Britains greatest contribution to western civilization, THE BENNY
HILL SHOW isn't still around to further the cause with one of Benny's
famous fast-motion skits!!!

But look at the sobering news that Neil Jones posts to LEPS-L on
March 8, 1996, titled BLACK DAY FOR TOP BUTTERFLY SITE, reveals that the
circus at Cwmgwrach (supported by Butterfly "Conservation") was to no
avail. Celtic Power is moving in! Gosh, I WONDER WHY Neil Jones & his
gang of "eco-fanatics" failed miserably in their quest?

Certainly, part of this failure is due to Neil Jones beligerent
behavior and his failure to seriously negotiate matters with British
officials which he has attacked in the past (yet he says that I should
not criticize certain U.S. officials -USFWS). I do not like some of the
collecting laws but the reason I encourage everyone to obey the laws (as
they have been taken seriously since 1992), and I obey court orders, is
to demonstrate my willingness to cooperate and negotiate matters with the
opposition. When there are "eco-warriors" who routinely break the law
and show no regard for law and order, however, their mission fails.
Don't you realize that your outlandish acts only breed public contempt
for environmental issues? Outside of the small entomology crowd, my
"butterfly bust" is considered a big joke by the public. Please put
aside your warped morals and get in touch with the REAL WORLD.

Neil, do you not notice in my earlier recent postings, that I
indeed predicted that your efforts would fail! A simple deduction, given
the fact that I can accurately label you a "nutty radical" Whether the
"lunatic fringe" are members of Butterfly Conservation or the U.S. Fish &
Wildlife Service, they will only bring destruction to their causes. But
I also realize that the radical will never abdicate willingly, hencer why
I feel the best remedy is to call for more rational members of an
organization (be it the B.C. or the USFWS) to remove the radicals and
restore reasonable cooperation -- indeed we should take Dr. robert Pyle's
advice more seriously... Clean up your act Neil - if you can.


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