SE Arizona Butterfly Counts and Collecting on Counts

[Ron Gatrelle]

I thank you very much for your balanced and gracious post. You politely and
accurately informed us of the why, as well as how,  it is. I have only
occasionally been in the field with watch only persons. I have NEVER
collected around such persons without first asking there permission (even
though I didn't "have to"). I have even had watcher onlys point out
specimens to me so I could collect them - as if to reasure me it was OK as
I still wasn't catching anything even after they said they did not mind. I
am not an arrogant uncooperative person. When they have said it bothers
them I HAVE REFRAINED. None of this had anything to do with whose property
we were on or who had to submit to who. It was just common courtesy. I
still expect people to say - please.

I do not try to impose my values on others (though I reserve the right to
talk about them as much as I want) and I don't like it one bit when
"others" demand I follow theirs (they are also free to talk about it as
much as they want).

Most collectors are not as apt to "stand and fight" as I, but many feel
very abused and villainized. It is important to hear from responsible
leadership in NABA etc. to reassured us that any anti-net policies are from
individuals and not any official (even hidden) policy.

If I understand you correctly in the below - you feel that someone turning
is a number like 709 of some butterfly on a "count" is absurd?  I use that
number as an actual count once turned in. This was told to me by a watcher
who their self thought it was absurd. Personally, I think 52 is a near
impossibility to be accurate. I get the impression that there must be a lot
of competition among birders as to who saw the most (individuals as well as
species), the soonest, and in more places - is that correct?  I know
collectors who have this same kind of completive attitude also, and don't
care for it at all.
Ron

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hank & Priscilla Brodkin" <hankb at theriver.com>
To: "leps-l" <leps-l at lists.yale.edu>; "SoWest Leps"
<SoWestLep at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2001 12:57 PM
Subject: SE Arizona Butterfly Counts and Collecting on Counts


> For the southeastern Arizona butterfly count schedule and contacts go to
> :
> http://www.naba.org/chapters/nabasa/counts.html
>
> Please note that most of Fourth of July Butterfly Counts have been in
> existence many years.  The program was started (correct me if I am
> wrong) by the Xerces Society, a society whose only mission is the
> conservation of invertebrates, long before NABA was organized.  Most of
> the folks who took part in these counts did (and still do) collect
> specimens of difficult to seperate and unusual for their count species.
> NABA has taken this program under it's wing. But I see nothing in NABA's
> rules for conducting the counts prohibiting the use of nets.
>
> In our part of the country, especially during the monsoon season, we get
> many species that invade from Mexico.  For these unusual and unexpected
> (and non-endangered) species we need either a recognizable photograph or
> a specimen to have them accepted on the count list.  This is the way
> these counts have always been conducted. We let our members know in
> advance that, unlike on our field trips where no collecting is allowed
> and even the use of nets for catch and release is strongly discouraged,
> species on counts that are unusual in our area will be collected by some
> of the participants. Therefor a member can search his or conscience and
> decide whether or not to participate.
>
> Comparing counting insects with counting birds is a specious argument.
> A bird is a relatively large organism that will usually stick around
> long enough to be verified.  If it is not - and the count is being run
> properly - you had better be able to convince the compiler and the
> editors of your sightings.
>
> Please my fellow NABA members - let us not loose sight of the reason for
> NABA's existence; "NABA is interested in all aspects of netless
> butterfly appreciation including observation, identification, gardening,
> photography, and observation".  NABA's reason for being (please correct
> me if I am wrong) has absolutley nothing to do with telling members or
> non-members how to conduct themselves in legal pursuit of their
> interests.
> NABA's credo certainly does not insist that we set ourselves up as
> anti-net nazis.
>
> --
>              Hank & Priscilla Brodkin
>           Carr Canyon, Cochise County, AZ
>                    Send Mailto:hankb at theriver.com
>              SouthEast Arizona Butterfly Association
>           http://www.naba.org/chapters/nabasa/home.html
>          "Butterflies of Arizona - a Photographic Guide"
>     by Bob Stewart, Priscilla and Hank Brodkin - due September 2001
>           http://pages.zdnet.com/hbrodkin/butterfliesofarizona/
>
>
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>
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>


 
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