Species definitions!

[Michael Gochfeld]

The following is written with subdued tone.  Although I applaud going beyond the
numbers to examine ecology, ethology, physiology, morphology and variation etc,
I think there is something that must be said in support of numbers, if they are
systematically (and more or less accurately) obtained.  "245 X, 126 Y, 57 Z
when collected over time and space can provide important information about the
populations in question.  MIKE GOCHFELD

> Oh, I'm not saying the field work is not necessary. Quite the contrary! But
> if we observe the countless Fritillaries with the intent of merely drawing
> up a tally of "245 X, 126 Y, 57 Z... etc." without progressing beyond this
> level of study, then what is the worth of the field work, either to
> ourselves or to science? The poor fellow who has taken the time and spent
> the energy to determine that there were "223" instead of "225" Juvenal's
> Duskywings (and I'm using an example of a posting I saw from this past May-
> and the poor fellow reported them as "Juvenile's") himself is probably
> unaware of the treasures that exist on the other side of the door of
> understanding. That's what I'm talking about. This is why someone taking the
> time to count the actual number of Cabbages seems worthless to me while the
> person may be at same time being blind to the observation of the degree of
> white banding on an astyannax or the degree of hybridization between
> weidemeyerii and rubrofasciata etc. etc. Or even to the understanding of why
> some astyannax have bands and others don't. And the worst factor is that
> some people in leadership capacities permit or even propagate ignorance in
> others.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mark Walker [SMTP:MWalker at gensym.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 3:15 PM
> > To:   'agrkovich at tmpeng.com'; 'Ron Gatrelle'; 'Leps-l'
> > Subject:      RE: Species definitions!
> >
> > Alex wrote:
> >
> > > I guess what bothers me the most is that such very deep
> > > mysteries have been
> > > replaced by endless reports of "I saw 23 Orange Sulphurs and 15 Common
> > > Sulphurs and 223 Juvenals Duskywings and ...." And anyway,
> > > since when has it
> > > become so important to actually count Cabbage Butterflies????
> >
> > Ahhh, yes, but I guess it IS more important to encourage field work of any
> > sort - even if the notion of counting does seem a bit less interesting
> > (not
> > to mention accurate) than sampling.  I, for one, would like to know when
> > someone sees hordes of Juvenal's Duskywings.  In fact, I'm sorry I don't
> > provide more information on frequency in my field posts - I've mostly
> > stopped putting comments like 'common' or 'numerous' in them.  A lot of
> > this
> > information is just as, if not more, important than the fact that the
> > species was sighted at all (which I guess is Alex's point anyway - we
> > don't
> > talk about it like Klots did - at least not much, anymore).  For example,
> > on
> > my most recent trip (while in Grant, Co. OR), I found lots of
> > Fritillaries.
> > One of them was Speyeria hydaspe.  All the other species of Speyeria were
> > fresh.  Absolutely none of the S. hydaspe were fresh, and in fact there
> > were
> > few with whole wings at all.  This would tell me that S. hydaspe flies
> > quite
> > a bit earlier than the other Speyeria (along with S. cybele leto), a
> > simple
> > enough conclusion - but one of significant interest nonetheless.
> >
> > Incidentally, I'm looking over the races of Speyeria according to Howe.
> > Awesome.  I don't care what you call them specifically, there's little
> > more
> > fascinating then a drawer showcasing ecologically induced Speyeria
> > variation.
> >
> >
> > Mark Walker
> > Oceanside, CA
>
>
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