Subject: RE: lepidopterists have anything to learn from ... b irders ?

[Mark Walker]

Neil wrote:

> I suspect this may provoke a reaction. Yes, I am being provocative.

You can bet this will get a response.  You are deserving of a lot of
adjectives, but provocative isn't the one I would have picked.

> grin on my face writing this but I can justify _every_ point. I find
> Mark's
> assertion utterly illogical. Perhaps this will actually get some people
> thinking about what science really is! :-)

"utterly illogical".  You constantly write as if you've got the inside on
logic.  Wow - how perfectly wired your brain must be!  Spock Jones I shall
call you.  "Perhaps this will actually get some people thinking...".  Yes,
and we'll all have YOU to thank for that.  We'd be "utterly" lost without
you.

Science is knowledge through systematic study.  Virtually every person on
the planet could be categorized as a scientist at some point in their lives.
Anyone who is studying the life cycles of insects in the field (which cannot
be successfully accomplished unsystematically), and then studying their
physical characteristics through careful preparation, mounting, and admiring
is certainly engaging in science - no matter how illogical they or their
activities may seem to the likes of you!

> 
>  _However_ the evidence from this list shows that there is often a
> lamentable
> lack of logical and scientific thinking amongst certain collectors.

The "evidence from this list" - please.  The keeper of the list has spoken.
"a lamentable lack of logical and scientific thinking...".  According to
whom?  Is that judgment a scientific one, or a personal one?  Honestly, I
don't know how you manage to climb up into that lofty saddle each day.

> 
> Regular observers will know that certain people on this list claim to be
> scientific but advance or support the most illogical, irrational and
> unscientific ideas.

Even if this were true (i.e. it were coming from someone other than you), it
would in no way justify discounting everything else that might come from
such people.

> Seriously folks! It is all there in the archives!

And there's a lot more in the archives - including a bunch of stuff that
betrays your standing amongst polite and reasonable people.

> To be fair it isn't just collectors but I am constantly worried by people
> who
> fall for hoaxes. It wouldn't be fair to criticise Americans for not
> knowing
> rude British slang but other things that are said that are equally
> obviously
> hoaxes and people should know. Yet they still fall for it. BE scientific
> _check_ the data _first_.

Why don't you stop worrying about everyone else and start focusing on your
own social graces.

Don't worry - no apology necessary.

Mark Walker
One scientist prone to bursts of illogical behavior.



 
 ------------------------------------------------------------ 

   For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit:

   http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl