Do Monarchs need Paul Cherubini?

[Jim Taylor]

List + Pat:

I, for one, find Paul to be a calm and reasoning voice midst large
quantities of smoke and mirrors. He is almost always under attack -
frequently strident - and he keeps his cool.

Jim Taylor
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Foley" <patfoley at csus.edu>
To: <monarch at saber.net>
Cc: "Leps-l" <Leps-l at lists.yale.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 8:52 PM
Subject: Do Monarchs need Paul Cherubini?


> Dear Lepsters,
>
> Am I the only one who has noticed that
>
> 1) Paul Cherubini has accused me of embracing dishonest science although I
am
> clearly on record against scientific error while recognizing that error is
part of
> the business of science. Somehow Paul thinks that when Paul Ehrlich
predicts the
> future, all environmentalists should feel responsible if he is wrong.
There is a
> difference between scientific research and speculative prophecy. Most of
us
> understand this. Paul pretends not to.
>
> 2) Paul Cherubini has not answered my question concerning his financial
interests
> in the Monarch business.
>
> 3) Paul Cherubini has yet to answer the claims that he takes on false
email
> identities for lobbying purposes.
>
> I want to make it clear that while I disagree with many things Paul says,
he
> certainly knows a lot about Monarchs. But I cannot trust anything he says
until he
> answers these questions. Can you?
>
> Patrick Foley
> patfoley at csus.edu
>
> Paul Cherubini wrote:
>
> > Pat wrote:
> >
> > > Jim, I also am dubious about Brower's figures, but I can't
> > > find out how he calculated them except hearsay.
> > > Does anyone have a pointer to a Brower paper which clears this up.
> >
> > Pat, here is the paper that Brower is preparing:
> > http://www.saber.net/~monarch/kustbrower.JPG
> >
> > > It is well established that many corporations have lied,
> > > cheated and stolen using bogus science. Consider the tobacco industry
> > > alone, but there are plenty of examples. Academic fraud occurs but is
> > > relatively rare.  Any honest person who has worked for
> > > industry (as I have) knows how much pressure there is to fudge.
> > > Are you disagreeing with me from principle or are you being paid to do
> > > so?
> >
> > Pat, I guess we disagree about what constitutes academic dishonesty.
When
> > a scientist slants or distorts data or the interpretation of data in a
way that
> > overstates a human health or environmental concern, I consider it
academic
> > dishonesty. However, you apparently feel that if a scientist slants or
distorts
> > in order to draw attention to an environmental concern, then it should
be
> > considered merely exaggerating or overstating the concern.
> >
> > For example, in regard to Paul Ehrlich's predictions of ecosystem
> > collapse and global famine during the 80's and 90's you wrote:
> >
> > "Paul Ehrlich does exaggerate, but almost all of the dangers he
identifies are
> > real, do need attention, and have gotten attention precisely because of
> > doomsayers like him."
> >
> > Ehrlich: (considered merely exaggerating)
> >
> >  -  "The battle to feed all of humanity is over. In the 1970s and
> >   1980s hundreds of millions of people will starve to death in spite
> >   of any crash programs embarked upon now. . America's vast
> >   agricultural surpluses are gone."
> >
> > -  America in 1984 would have food shortages so severe that steak
> >   would be $12 a pound, the U.S. unemployment rate would be 27
> >   percent, and India would be an anarchy because of nationwide
> >   food riots.
> >
> > -  "a minimum of ten million people, most of them children,
> >   will starve to death during each year of the 1970s. But this is a
> >   mere handful compared to the numbers that will be starving
> >   before the end of the century"
> >
> >  -  "Before 1985, mankind will enter a genuine age of scarcity .
> >   in which the accessible supplies of 13 key minerals will be
> >   facing depletion."
> >
> > Tobacco executive (considered lying or using bogus science)
> >
> > - "I do not believe that nicotine is addictive"
> >
> >
> >  ------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >    For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit:
> >
> >    http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl
> >
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------------------------------------
>
>    For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit:
>
>    http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl
>
>


 
 ------------------------------------------------------------ 

   For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit:

   http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl