What is a lepidopterist?- Answer to Guy Van de Poel

[mbpi at juno.com]

This is just a note of encouragement to Eduardo, and other listers who
may not have a great command of the English language.  Just because this
listserv is predominated by English speaking individuals, it is NOT the
"eminent domain" of the English-speaking, and I for one read and
appreciate the input of other nationalities.  

Keep it up!  Everybody's voice is important...

M.B. Prondzinski

On Sat, 2 Feb 2002 00:42:07 +0000 (UTC) "Eduardo Marabuto"
<edu_marabuto at netcabo.pt> writes:
> Hi
> 
> > Yet.
> > In Germany, 95% of the species occurring are protected, cannot be 
> caught.
> > The ones that can be, are species like the Pieris, Inachis io, 
> Aglais
> > urticae, the Vanessas.
> > In certain regions of Switzerland, collecting butterflies is 
> completely
> > forbidden. In Spain (including the Canary Islands) no butterfly 
> (insects?)
> > at all can be taken: illegal.
> 
> and
> 
> I know in Flanders it is illegal to have some species
> > in your collection (e.g. Iphiclides podalirius). This butterfly is 
> still
> > common around the Mediterranean, *but his range does not reach 
> Flanders*
> in
> > the north (though of course stragglers can come that far).
> >
> > In politics, when a certain species is threatened, it depends on 
> the
> threat
> > what will be done about it. Depending on how much money is 
> involved, the
> > solution will be a real one, or just a cover-up.
> > We all know that if the caterpillars do not have anything to munch 
> on any
> > more because of loss of habitat, it does not bring anything to 
> forbid to
> > collect the adults.
> > And a nice cover-up is just that: if no-one can collect 
> butterflies, less
> > people will be interested, and less threats will be reported on. 
> And
> > 'looking' at butterflies is good for the common species (that 
> usually do
> not
> > need protection), but several of the skippers are impossible to 
> tell apart
> > without catching them. The same goes for some rare Pierids (try 
> and
> > distinguish Pieris mannii or ergane from P. rapae in flight).
> > Most of these laws do not really serve anything except to protect 
> big
> > interests.
> >
> > Guy.
> 
> About Germany, I'm asking myself why? Why a so high number of 
> butterfly
> species are under protection by the government if people are the 
> great
> responsibles for their decline? (and that is applied to most parts 
> of
> Europe) Agriculture, escapes of alien species of plants, cities 
> natural
> expansion, drainage of soils, etc, etc... are the grat factors of
> habitat
> loss. Why are butterflies only thought about when they're in some 
> kind
> of
> risk?
> A new example comes to my mind... if a farmer in Germany is ready 
> to
> cultivate a land and finds a thyme plant (Thymus sp.) full of
> caterpillars
> of Maculinea arion (I suppose it´s protected in Germany) and he 
> crushes
> the
> plant (with everything within it) with it´s traction-engine is it
> considered
> a crime? Is he going to be arrested? What kind of fee is he going 
> to
> pay?
> NOTHING
> And if immediately before the farmer crushes the plant appears a
> collector,
> without any permits for collecting, a simple amateur, and tells him
> there´s
> a protected species on that plant? Is the farmer going to stop 
> working
> for
> that? Loosing money for that? No way!
> Okay, both the collector and the farmer agree so that the collector
> catches
> all larvae in the plant and takes them away so that the farmer may
> continue
> his work. If he keeps the larvae is it considered illegal? For God 
> sake,
> he
> may have saved their lives and is he going to be considered a 
> criminal?
> Even
> if he decides to put them in his collection wouldn´t they die each 
> way?
> There´s a bit of strange in all those protective laws, etc... (at 
> least
> is
> what i think)
> Is the 95 % applied only to butterflies or also to moths and other
> orders of
> insects? If one knows how insects are, how they behave, reproduce, 
> etc.
> those laws wouldn´t be applied that way, simply not carrying about 
> them
> and
> only searching for infractors... Insects, in my minds eye, cannot 
> be
> compared with wolfes, bears, and other kinds of large animals, with
> different ecologies...
> I really think like you Guy
> uf...
> 
> About Spain, i really didn´t know it was illegal to capture 
> anything
> there... is it also applied to moths, Pieris sp. and most insects?
> That´s
> strange knowing that it´s so similar to my country. Exceptions could 
> be
> Sierra Nevada and other isolated localities with many endemisms, 
> local
> and
> very restricted species. That´s where conservation should take 
> place.
> There´s no reason for that about common species, pests, widely
> distributed
> ones, etc... simply is a matter of politics and if we know what 
> happens
> in
> south Spain... with kilometers and kilometers without a tree, only 
> corn,
> vine-yards, eucaliptus and other virtually useless for leps
> cultivations...
> One has to think about real interests about this....
> 
> 
> >You can collect in Turkey, but you cannot take
> > them out of the country.
> > I don't know about the other countries (I would be interested to 
> know
> about
> > Portugal - Eduardo ?).
> 
> About Turkey... why? Is it to prevent illegal trading? It must 
> be...
> 
> About Portugal:
>  It´s a bit difficult to talk about my own country. It seems people
> simply
> don´t get interested on them and that´s a bit sad...
> About legislation, as far as I know, NO SPECIES ARE LEGALLY 
> PROTECTED.
> Maybe
> because of ignorance from the government, maybe because of 
> ignorance
> from
> scientists (i´m just an amateur, maybe level 3 according to Robert 
> J.
> Nuelle).
> I´m not completely certain about what I said in the previous 
> paragraph
> and
> i´ll try to contact the ICN (Nature Conservation Institute) and 
> then
> tell
> you all the real status about portuguese leps. :)
> 
> uf, I think today i´m complaining too much and must stop for now...
> All the best for everyone in the list
> 
> Eduardo Marabuto
> Portugal
> 
> 
> 
> 
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