Fwd: RE: MIAMI BLUE BUTTERFLY RESTORATION PROJECT

[Andrew Warren]

Hi John,

Absolutely not.  I did not list the US only because fewer specimens are
collected illegally by US citizens since the early '90's.  In reality,
probably 70% of the Mexican specimens deposited in institutions outside of
Mexico are in US institutions, so the US is the biggest exploiter in
recent decades.  

Perhaps exploit is a bit too harsh of a word.  There have always been
fewer collections in Mexico, and fewer institutions capable of or
interested
in caring for these.  However, there have always been
some institutional
collections at UNAM in Mexico City, and the Natural History Museum in
Mexico City (which has some of Muller's material from the early 1900's-
the rest is in the USNM).    

But none of the specimens collected by Hubbell, Wind, Freeman, Welling,
etc. etc. have ever made it back to Mexico- they are in US institutions.
Even the two largest collections of Mexican butterflies assembled by
Mexican collectors in the mid 1900's ended up in US collections (Escalante
collection to Allyn Museum and Hoffmann collection to the USNM).

My point is that almost nobody has deposited Mexican specimens in Mexican
institutions, save some individuals associated with the
Mexican institutions that house collections. I think Mexico's laws
regulating the collection of Lepidoptera are really just an effort to keep
some specimens in Mexican collections, and try to reverse the trend of
every last specimen ending up in foreign collections.  

Andy   


On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, John Grehan wrote:

> 
> >  Mexico has been exploited for its
> >Lepidoptera since before Godman & Salvin; the biggest collections of
> >Mexican butteflies have ended up in the US museums.
> 
> I would be interested for an elaboration on this point about Mexico being 
> "exploited" for its
> Lepidoptera. Is the term "exploited' being used in reference to Mexico in a 
> way that the
> term would not be applicable to the US?
> 
> John Grehan
> 
> 
> 
> >Material taken by
> >commercial collectors from overseas is rarely used in faunal or systematic
> >studies.  Less than 1% of the types of endemic Mexican butterfly species
> >are in Mexican collections.
> >I am confident that if any of you
> >approached the curators of a Mexican collection with a donation of Mexican
> >specimens, they would not even ask if they were collected under the
> >authority of a permit- they would just be happy to have the material.
> >
> >Best,
> >
> >Andy
> >
> >On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Chris J. Durden wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > >Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 11:30:38 -0600
> > > >To: "Grkovich, Alex" <agrkovich at tmpeng.com>
> > > >From: "Chris J. Durden" <drdn at mail.utexas.edu>
> > > >Subject: RE: MIAMI BLUE BUTTERFLY RESTORATION PROJECT
> > > >
> > > >    Perhaps someone (like Andy Warren) who has done recent fieldwork in
> > > > Mexico can fill us in on the current situation regarding what permits 
> > are
> > > > needed, how to get them, and if it is economically and politically
> > > > possible to fulfill these requirements in a timely fashion.
> > > >    I have yet to meet an American researcher (biological) who has all 
> > the
> > > > requirements fulfilled to the letter, as required by our USFWS
> > > > enforcement officers in enforcing the Lacey Act of 1911, Revision of 
> > 1981.
> > > >    For my own part, since retirement, I have taken a break from
> > > > collecting in Mexico. Ever since I was visited (fall of 1993) at home
> > > > (where I keep no collection) by enforcement agents of USFWS and reminded
> > > > of their powers of seizure, I have not collected in Mexico. Perhaps when
> > > > I do resume collecting in that beautiful and fascinating country of warm
> > > > friendly people, I may mail my specimens to researchers in countries
> > > > other than the USA. Then I can visit my foreign friends to work on my
> > > > specimens in their collections.
> > > >    I think we suffer at present from too much of a regulatory mindset. I
> > > > think we have "shot ourselves in the foot".
> > > >................Chris Durden
> > > >
> > > >At 07:59 AM 1/31/2002 -0500, you wrote:
> > > >>Chris, What is the situation in Mexico?
> > > >>    Alex
> > > >>
> > > >> > -----Original Message-----
> > > >> > From: Chris J. Durden [SMTP:drdn at mail.utexas.edu]
> > > >> > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 11:39 PM
> > > >> > To:   agrkovich at tmpeng.com
> > > >> > Subject:      RE: MIAMI BLUE BUTTERFLY RESTORATION PROJECT
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Alan,
> > > >> >     I agree. Some states are worse than others, but none are yet 
> > as bad as
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Mexico or Germany. The dead horse needs more beating until the smell
> > > >> > prompts some action by reasonable people.
> > > >> > ..................Chris
> > > >> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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