Endangered species act

[Mark Walker]

John,

I have a small problem with one of the points you address below.  You've
defended the US Fish and Wildlife Service, which I think is most appropriate
- generalizations are unfair and incorrect.  However, your suggestion that
the only collectors who have had their collections inspected are those who
have been acquainted with criminals may or may not be true (I can't speak
for my friends, but I'm almost certain that one of them was confronted based
on non-offending email contact with a suspect, another with an unmentionable
guilty party, who happened to be a dealer who had communicated with hundreds
of otherwise innocent people).  In any case, it doesn't seem constitutional
- acquaintance does not provide just cause.  There must be strong evidence
of criminal behavior - unfortunately, with the agencies we're discussing I
suspect that "collecting" is considered sufficient evidence (greedy bastards
that they all are).

I personally don't like the idea that I might have my home assaulted based
on the fact that I have innocent email dialogue with persons less ethical
than myself.  I also suspect that if a person hadn't gotten around to
getting all of their specimens labeled, they could likely have them
confiscated (because the inspectors couldn't know for sure what they were
looking at).  It's surely no wonder that most people out there remain silent
and anonymous - drawing attention to oneself is considered by many to be
foolish (uh oh).  I choose not to worry about this myself, as I focus on
voucher specimens - and any perceived value placed on my collection will be
based on scientific data and not rarity.

Defending the F&WS is fine - but you've implied that there is nothing wrong
with what I perceive to be a gross violation of privacy.  Again, I'm no
conspiracy theorist - this just doesn't seem right to me.

Mark Walker.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Shuey [mailto:jshuey at tnc.org]
> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 10:14 AM
> To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu
> Subject: RE: Endangered species act
> 
> >
> > On Fri, 8 Feb 2002, Mike Soukup wrote:
> > > With due respect to Jere, and, as a person who has spent much time "on
> > > the shady side of the law", I would recommend almost nothing he says.
> > > If you accidentally kill an endangered specie in the USA, keep your
> > > mouth shut, don't tell anybody, and mis-label your specimen!!!  Our
> > > USF&W are NOT nice, understanding people.  They are thugs with guns
> and
> > > power and they like to use it.
> >
> > I'm sorry to hear that, and even more saddened by the fact that your
> > advise is probably more reliable than mine!
> >
> > BTW in Finland endangered != protected by law. Here 'endangered'
> > is just a
> > label for species that need special attention for some reason and while
> > all protected species are endangered, most endangered species are not
> > protected. I think most lepidopterologists (in all senses of the word)
> > here agree with me if a claim that the protected special have been
> > selected in a more-or-less random way.
> >
> >
> 
> You know - this is BULL SH&&%T.
> 
> I work with F&WS folks on a daily basis - they are, by and large, a highly
> dedicated group of people who care about conservation and the environment
> -
> doing the best they can to leave a legacy within the confines of an
> overbearing bureaucracy.
> 
> As to the innocents who have been visited by F&WS law enforcement - I
> personally know three such people.  All of them had extensive dealings
> with
> folks who have pleaded guilty to violations of the Endangered Species Act
> or
> the Lacy Act.  All three had many hundreds of specimens that were
> "illegal",
> and that were at least temporarily confiscated while legal cases were made
> against others (I saw one such stash of "evidence" temporarily stored at a
> museum).  At least one of these friends had their specimens returned to
> them - grand fathered into legality (and I don't know about the others but
> I
> assume that they have their specimens back as well).
> 
> Granted, I may seem unpatriotic to some folks of this list for defending
> our
> government (as you know, others have fought and died so that we can enjoy
> the right to bitch about our government).  But to negatively categorize
> every person who works for F&WS as "thugs with guns and power"
> demonstrates
> a lethal combination of both ignorance and stupidity that is difficult
> tolerate.
> 
> Even for a liberal like me.
> 
> John
> 
> John A. Shuey
> Director of Conservation Science
> Indiana Office of The Nature Conservancy
> 1505 N Delaware Street, Indianapolis, IN 46202
> 317.951.8818
> 
> 
> 
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