Endangered species act

Mike Soukup mikayak3 at home.net
Fri Feb 8 15:12:37 EST 2002


To me, it is a matter of "perspective".  Our forefathers set up our judicial
system, and indeed our entire government under the premise that it was more
important to protect the rights of an individual - and allow SOME guilty people
to slip thru the cracks and go free- rather than accidentally destroying some
innocent people while catching ALL of the guilty.   To me, if even one person is
unjustly raided, tried, and forced to spend his life savings to defend himself
- without being reimbursed for his time and trouble - and apologized to -  the
system is broken.  I can easily get documentation of USF&W overzealousness in
enforcing laws.  Can you tell me no innocent individual has been harmed by thier
actions?  I doubt it.

    You obviously feel that "some innocents" must be sacrificed for the good of
all.

I disagree strongly.

John Shuey wrote:

> >
> > On Fri, 8 Feb 2002, Mike Soukup wrote:
> > > With due respect to Jere, and, as a person who has spent much time "on
> > > the shady side of the law", I would recommend almost nothing he says.
> > > If you accidentally kill an endangered specie in the USA, keep your
> > > mouth shut, don't tell anybody, and mis-label your specimen!!!  Our
> > > USF&W are NOT nice, understanding people.  They are thugs with guns and
> > > power and they like to use it.
> >
> > I'm sorry to hear that, and even more saddened by the fact that your
> > advise is probably more reliable than mine!
> >
> > BTW in Finland endangered != protected by law. Here 'endangered'
> > is just a
> > label for species that need special attention for some reason and while
> > all protected species are endangered, most endangered species are not
> > protected. I think most lepidopterologists (in all senses of the word)
> > here agree with me if a claim that the protected special have been
> > selected in a more-or-less random way.
> >
> >
>
> You know - this is BULL SH&&%T.
>
> I work with F&WS folks on a daily basis - they are, by and large, a highly
> dedicated group of people who care about conservation and the environment -
> doing the best they can to leave a legacy within the confines of an
> overbearing bureaucracy.
>
> As to the innocents who have been visited by F&WS law enforcement - I
> personally know three such people.  All of them had extensive dealings with
> folks who have pleaded guilty to violations of the Endangered Species Act or
> the Lacy Act.  All three had many hundreds of specimens that were "illegal",
> and that were at least temporarily confiscated while legal cases were made
> against others (I saw one such stash of "evidence" temporarily stored at a
> museum).  At least one of these friends had their specimens returned to
> them - grand fathered into legality (and I don't know about the others but I
> assume that they have their specimens back as well).
>
> Granted, I may seem unpatriotic to some folks of this list for defending our
> government (as you know, others have fought and died so that we can enjoy
> the right to bitch about our government).  But to negatively categorize
> every person who works for F&WS as "thugs with guns and power" demonstrates
> a lethal combination of both ignorance and stupidity that is difficult
> tolerate.
>
> Even for a liberal like me.
>
> John
>
> John A. Shuey
> Director of Conservation Science
> Indiana Office of The Nature Conservancy
> 1505 N Delaware Street, Indianapolis, IN 46202
> 317.951.8818
>
>
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