It is Paul Ehrlich's fault!
Patrick Foley
patfoley at csus.edu
Sun Jan 6 11:07:18 EST 2002
I blame Paul Ehrlich for all the embarrassingly dumb posts to the Leps
list this year (2002). If only Paul could control himself, we could too.
Patrick
patfoley at csus.edu
1_iron wrote:
> Mike Soukup, you've got smart brains. Wish I had said that. Jim Taylor
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mike Soukup
> To: monarch at saber.net
> Cc: leps-l at lists.yale.edu
> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 6:34 PM
> Subject: Re: Niel Jones' response to Ron Gatrelle
> I have not followed this thread closely for many reasons.
> However, my two cents from far-far out in right field is
> this: Extincion - whether we like it or not, is the natural
> order of ALL living things. If I could stop that, the first
> thing I would do would be to stop my own impending
> extinction!!! There are millions of more species that have
> gone extinct than there are species living on the earth
> today....and that's just on one measly little planet in a
> backwater solar system in the boondocks of one of the outer
> spiral arms of one of the smaller galaxies in the universe.
> Had the dinosaurs not gone extinct, we would not be here
> now. So, in that case, I would think maybe Neil would want
> to consider the value of extinction. For instance, I
> believe that smallpox or polio or some other bacteria was
> "made extinct" and is only now preserved in CDC labs and
> such. Is this a "bad" thing?? I think not.
> Once again, I think many conservationists are blinded to
> thier own impotence. They think humans have control over
> the planet. VERY egotistical. And, also, ludicrous. That
> said, I consider myself a conservationist. I do everything
> I can in my little sphere to keep things going. But, I am
> also a realist. Trying to maintain the diversity of our
> flora and fauna as is is as impossible as trying to stop the
> earth's rotation. You can't do it. It's bigger than you.
> And, once again, I have to point out that we are part of
> nature - not separate and above it - or different from it -
> but merely a part of it. I've stated it before and it bears
> repeating. We are not the driver of this car. We aren't
> even really passengers....we are part of the car. And, even
> if we are the engine or the steering wheel....I still don't
> think we are the ones deciding where the vehicle is going to
> go! And, thinking we ARE in control is like the steering
> wheel thinking it's driving.
>
> Oh, and the ad hominem attacks and linking people with
> listening to Rush Limbaugh "don't make it". See, first of
> all, if everyone on this list actually listened to Rush for
> 3 weeks, then listened to Neil for 3 weeks, I think they
> would think Rush makes ALOT more sense and is much more
> "mainstream".. And, if the fascist name calling, Hitler
> references are ALL the tools that one has resort to, then
> you have lost the rational argument - and are, in fact,
> wrong.
>
> I only wish I had followed more closely to see where
> everyone stands....but the holidays REALLY mess with my
> routine!!!
>
> Cherubini wrote:
>
> > Kondla, Norbert wrote:
> > >
> > > Yeah, me too. I was "grossed out" by Neil's personal
> > attack but this is not
> > > the first time this has happened on this list.
> >
> > Neil has personally attacked me this week too in the same
> > general manner
> > as yourself, Ron Gatrelle, Mark Walker, etc:
> > --------------------------------------------
> > --------------------------------------------
> > Subject: Mr Cherubini's affiliations
> > Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 00:06:05 GMT
> > From: Neil Jones <entstore at NWJONES.DEMON.CO.UK>
> > Reply-To: Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk
> > To: ENTOMO-L at LISTSERV.UOGUELPH.CA
> >
> > We have been hearing a lot from Mr Paul Cherubini.
> > I know that some people will know about his affiliations
> > but others will not.
> > It is of course important that ad-hominem attacks are not
> > made. This is not
> > my intention. However, it is important for people to know
> > when some one is
> > dissembling about their affiliations. It is also important
> > for people to be
> > aware of the eccentric world view of someone making these
> > outrageous claims.
> >
> > My Cherubini's main role in life seems to be to act as a
> > political activist
> > for the "wise use" movement. This political movement is
> > deliberately named to
> > confuse and is actual aim is vehemently anti-conservation.
> > It is perhaps best
> > described in the words of one of its gurus Ron Arnold.
> >
> > "Our goal is to destroy, to eradicate the environmental
> > movement. We want
> > people to be able to exploit the environment for private
> > gain, absolutely."
> >
> > Mr Cherubini seems to oppose _all_ conservation effort
> > _on_principle_. He has
> > become well known on other lists for spreading conspiracy
> > theories which in
> > the main seem to consist of attacks on "evil" Ph.D
> > scientists.
> >
> > He has spread falsehoods and smears about people engaged
> > in conservation. For
> > example, when a keen conservationist appealed for people
> > to help save the
> > Palos Verdes Blue (which is arguably the world's rarest
> > butterfly) from a
> > construction development on its last remaining site, he
> > immediately attacked
> > her as doing it for money. (No money was asked for people
> > were just asked to
> > write letters and the person concerned is in fact a
> > professional choreographer
> > who couldn't benefit financially from it.)
> >
> > Similarly he has attacked efforts to conserve the
> > endangered Quino Checkerspot
> > with false information.
> >
> > He says that people don't like him because he kills
> > insects. Well actually the
> > truth is people don't like him because he tries to help
> > make them _extinct_.!
> > No one will be able to study them then.
> >
> > Many people will remember his attempt to misuse satellite
> > photographs to claim
> > there was no deforestation on the Mexican hibernation
> > roosts of the monarch
> > butterfly. Essentially his claim , if taken as honest,
> > would boil down to the
> > claim that low resolution photographs showed _more_ detail
> > than high
> > resolution ones.
> >
> > This distortion of data is a frequent feature of Mr
> > Cherubini's postings.
> > Time and time again you find that people have dicovered he
> > is misquoting
> > or selectively quoting to misrepresent.
> >
> > If people want to know more about this issue it would be
> > interesting to read
> > the new book "Four Wings and a Prayer" by Sue Halpern.
> >
> > The following extracts about Mr. Cherubini are
> > interesting.
> >
> > Here Mr. Cherubini is talking about how he came to form
> > his beliefs.
> >
> > "... I got depressed, seriously depressed. And my parents
> > were having
> > marital problems and the psychiatrist wanted to interview
> > me to get a sense
> > about what their problems were but then he realized I had
> > problems too, and he
> > said "You're depressed, why do you think you have no
> > future?" and I said
> > "because these scientists have Ph.Ds," and he said ,
> > "That's not right, you're paranoid,"
> >
> > It goes on but experienced Cherubini watchers will
> > recognise the theme.
> >
> > Another extract is this.
> >
> > "We went to Jack-in-the-Box for lunch. Paul explained how
> > low-fat foods were
> > unhealthy but no one could say that out loud in public
> > because to do so would
> > be to take on a huge part of the economy....... He looked
> > normal but his
> > ideas seemed a little off kilter, tending toward the
> > second gunman/trilateral
> > commission/ Vince Foster conspiracy side of things."
> >
> > Read the book to get the full story it is most
> > interesting.
> >
> > --
> > Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk
> > http://www.nwjones.demon.co.uk/
> > "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who
> > speaks for the
> > butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial
> > at Crymlyn Bog
> > National Nature Reserve
> >
> >
> >
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> >
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> > visit:
> >
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> >
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