Vanessa at night

mbpi at juno.com mbpi at juno.com
Mon Jan 21 12:41:10 EST 2002 

Thanks, Rudy...

After I sent that post, I, too, thought of "antennae" as a species
indicator, though I didn't think of the other possibilities that you
mentioned, not knowing all the structural "make-up" of butterfly anatomy.

But, like I said...there are plenty of reserach ideas for the discerning
grad student if they are signed-up on this listserv!  An opportunity to
attempt to justify all the "disproven" ranting and raving that often
predominates this list...

What a gold mine!!!! :-)

M.B. Prondzinski

P.S. And to any grad student intent on taking up this potential "research
project:  I expect "citation" for the idea! :-)

On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 11:20:56 -0500 "Rudy Benavides"
<rbenavid at hotmail.com> writes:
> I've been helping some researchers here in Md. working on Bay and N. 
> 
> Atlantic waterfowl food habits.  They examine the contents in the 
> gizzards 
> and gullets of waterfowl (small and large birds) by dissecting and 
> then 
> straining/separating the food from the grit.  The food contents are 
> examined 
> under a microscope.  In addition to the bits of undigested grasses, 
> and 
> clams that they feed on, one can also see chitonous parts of tiny 
> invertebrates (tiny mandibles are good for id'ing).  The biologists 
> have 
> created a parts key that we use to identify most of these small 
> water 
> inverts.  When I read your post I was thinking that possibly tarsi, 
> 
> antennae, or even the reproductive organs of butterflies (made of 
> chitenous 
> material) might possibly be found in the food contents of the 
> wildlife you 
> mentioned.
> 
> Rudy Benavides
> ---------------------------------------
> 
> 
> >From: mbpi at juno.com
> >Reply-To: mbpi at juno.com
> >To: LEPS-L at lists.yale.edu
> >Subject: Re: Vanessa at night
> >Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 08:49:50 -0600
> >
> >It would be interesting to determine the incidence of butterflies 
> in the
> >stomach contents or crops of night flying insect eaters, such as 
> bats,
> >flying squirrels and nighthawks.  Of course this wouldn't prove 
> anything
> >inconclusively, but if the migratory leps species were found to be
> >present in significant numbers, it might indicate that these 
> species do,
> >indeed, move at night.
> >
> >How one were to "sample" the stomach contents is anyone's guess, 
> since
> >most butterfly gourmands eschew the wings, preferring the 
> "meatier"
> >portions of the butterfly.  I suppose it would have to be a 
> chemical
> >analysis indicative of the plant species consumed by the 
> butterflies in
> >their larval stage...
> >
> >I don't know for a fact, but the aforementioned insect eaters 
> generally
> >catch their prey "on the wing."  Whether or not they are 
> opportunistic
> >enough to eat "roosting" insects would certainly be another wrench 
> in the
> >conslusivity of the data collecting.
> >
> >Another great "research project" for some astute graduate student 
> who
> >could probably dream up better parameters to test this hypothesis 
> than
> >me!
> >
> >M.B. Prondzinski
> >
> >On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 08:19:12 -0500 Anne Kilmer <viceroy at GATE.NET> 
> writes:
> > > Paul Cherubini wrote:
> > >
> > > > Niklas Wahlberg wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>Yep, on warm starry nights with a full moon. How many moths 
> have
> > > you
> > > >>identified to species, genus, family, without an artificial 
> light
> > > after the
> > > >>sun has gone down? How many moths have you seen actually 
> flying
> > > without any
> > > >>source of artificial light?
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > I have about 200 butterfly bushes (Buddleia davidii) in my 
> rural
> > > backyard
> > > > in northern California. On warm, full moon nights in summer I 
> have
> > > no
> > > > trouble seeing moths nectaring on these flowers without using 
> a
> > > flashlight.
> > > > True, I have to catch the moths to ID them.
> > > >
> > > > Likewise out in the remote Nevada desert, far from human
> > > civilization,
> > > > I find it easy to see moths nectaring on Rabbitbrush flowers 
> on
> > > warm moonlit
> > > > nights.  I've never seen any butterflies nectaring or flying 
> at
> > > night (away from
> > > > artificial light sources) 30 minutes or more after sunset.
> > > >
> > > > Paul
> > > >
> > >
> > > So you reckon that, wafted by a hurricane, Monarchs, for 
> instance,
> > > quit
> > > flying when the lights go out? I bet not. Would you? 
> Windsurfing;
> > > Wow!
> > > They do show up in the British Isles, and have been recorded, 
> often,
> > >
> > > after hurricanes. (Neil can substantiate this, as can Trevor.)
> > >
> > > It is not possible to prove a negative.
> > > How many people are out looking for butterflies at night, would
> > > recognize a Vanessa even in bright light, high up among tree 
> tops,
> > > would
> > > care, and would think it worthy of mentioning?
> > > What are the odds that the few of you would happen to be 
> looking
> > > when a
> > > Vanessa passed by? ;-)
> > >
> > > As for nectaring, the butterflies and their flowers have a 
> deal;
> > > neither
> > > of them works when the sun ain't shining. No sun, no nectar.
> > > The folks who want moths offer nectar (and perfume) in the 
> evening,
> > > when
> > > the moths are out. Amazing, the works of Mother Nature.
> > >
> > > If a scientist cares to put this into science-speak, by all 
> means go
> > > for
> > > it.
> > >
> > > I have watched the workers at Butterfly World shaking the 
> bushes, on
> > >
> > > cloudy days, to keep the butterflies flying. The butterflies 
> know
> > > better.
> > > This is common knowledge, for Heaven's sake.
> > >
> > > Anne Kilmer,
> > > Kaos Consulting Services
> > > South Florida
> > >
> > >
> > >
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