Jose answers a question

[ParcBob at aol.com]

Greetings,

This is a reponse from Jose Muniz to a prospective customer. He is visably 
upset but I feel he makes some points and I offer this as one side in an 
argument that envelopes the entire leps community to a great degree. But 
mostly those involved in certain factions promoting their viewpoint at the 
expense of all others. I am trying to disquise the true identity of Mari 
since she might just be a potential customer , who in her mind, is asking 
what she feels are legitimate questions. Jose not only answered her but sent 
a reply back to her on his own letter. 

Jose is Ann Kilmer's "1st Lt" on the Task Force she and he are organizing to 
help restore the Miami Blue Butterfly. The Project MBBRP is currently working 
on science aspects and the raising of funds, not only for research, but the 
distribution of educational materials by the Task Force. 

The International Butterfly Breeder's association might well be misunderstood 
by many and jose certainly makes a good case for his profession. I have never 
set out to be a judge. My purpose has only been to enlist sincere people for 
the Project that I initiated on January 15 of this year. It has been 
turbulent to say the least.  We have had people critisize  us from the start, 
 people stay on the sidelines and direct slander by people mentioned in 
Jose's letter. 

Ann, in her benevelence opened the way for "her old friends" to undermune her 
efforts and some were concerned that she was a loose cannon. I am a warrior 
and i would like to have more artillery such as her. Just do not get in fron 
of the barrel. she is now semi retired and seems to grow weary of the fray 
nad i guess I will have to kick her in the arse to get her going a gain or 
maybe she needs some apologies from some of these people. Well I am loyal and 
she will not go away. 

We have information that it has all been worthwhile which I am sharing with 
no one at this time. But I have always felt that when you are right you are 
right and the truth prevails. If you can not believe that... you have no 
right calling yourself a human being let alone a scientist. I have received 
emails  in the past few months that Jose, is a busainess man and is out to 
make money. He could certainly "hurt" our efforts. 

Of all things! Well I have, until now, been paid for everything I have done 
in biology and have always shaved the boss except for when my boss was the 
President of the U.S. Very few biologists I know on any of these mlists can 
say the same. But they all have opinions for people like Ron and I who do our 
things. If you are a bureacrat in this day and age I find it hard for you to 
be a scientist. That is why I have so many engineer friends, Veronica...they 
get right to the point. If you are not on Nature potpourri you do not have a 
clue to what  I am speaking of. Heck if you are not you do not have a clue 
anyway. :)

Jose, I resepect your answer and your comments.  I might again, remind you 
that her questions are legitimate and there is no reason to feel she is a 
"plant". Therefore, some may think he is harsh with her. So be it. There is 
some truth in "them thar words".  And afterall, he is all business.

Of course now that I have written this; I bet she is Joe Sugar's fiance.

Bob Parcelles, Jr.
Miami Blue Restoration Project, Director
MBBRP, Chairman of the Oversight and Advisory Committee

Ecologist
RJP Associates
Reply to: ParcBob at aol.com
PHone: (727)548-9775
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Her is the Ladies Query:

name: Mari Smith (soon to be Mrs. Joe Sugar)

ADDRESS: 4100 Monarch Lane South

CITY: Pleasantville

STATE: Confusion

ZIP: ooooo

PHONE: 411-0U812

DATE: not planned yet

TYPE: Wedding

INFO: Selection and Availability

COMMENTS:

 I want this at my wedding. Of course I still have
to have a proposal, but I am confident that he will. I like
what you are doing, but also have some concerns.  I wanted
to mention that I am working on Monarch Butterfly
Augmentation Program in Tallahassee Florida here. I am
wondering if you participate with any conservation programs.
Since they research the migration patterns of Monarch's do
you participate in the capture/tagging, and release? I am a
little concerned about endangered species here - how
commercial sale and exploitation can harm the butterflies. I
know they don't live that long, but if they are not allowed
to migrate to flowering areas, how can the species survive
in the wild if your business grows? Are you fully legal
here? Your see-through envolope pictures a Monarch - if we
commercialize this what do you tell environmentalists?

Mari 
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=========
Jose's first answer:



-----Original Message-----
From: Jose Muniz [mailto:jmuniz at amazingbutterflies.com]
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 9:35 PM
To: 'mari_
Subject: RE: Question/Comment

Mari,

Please don't take this reply personally as it is not
intended to be personal, but rather my only way to express
my frustration with the ignorance that is being spread about
the release industry.

First, my business is incorporated in the state of Florida.
I have all the USDA permits required to ship butterflies
across state lines as per USDA regs.  The state of Florida
permits butterflies originating in this state to be released
within the state without permits. I find your question, if I
am fully legal, quite humorous.  I guess the
environmentalists also think commercial breeders are really
stupid too.  Why would anyone admit to running an illegal
business?

Secondly, I don't tell the environmentalists anything since
they don't ask. But when I ask for proof of their claims I don't get a
response either.

Please understand that all the butterflies I sell are farm
raised. If I didn't raise them they wouldn't exist. The entire
butterfly release industry only produces about 300K
butterflies per year.  Monarchs alone in the wild number 750
MILLION.

Just as a point of comparison, all the farm raised
butterflies in relation to all the wild Monarchs is only
.00004 farm raised to each wild monarch.
Danger Will Robinson, the world is coming to an end! We're
being overrun by farm raised butterflies. There are more
morons working in government than all the farm raised
butterflies combined. And they, in my opinion, are a real
danger to our existence and environment.

I released 5 dozen butterflies at the Mounts Botanical
garden here in South Florida this spring during a festival.
The NABA was there complaining about the butterflies that I
brought along.

Someone not related to the butterfly controversy pointed out
that these farm raised butterflies
were the only ones around. All these beautiful plants and
almost no butterflies. Why?
Humans invading prime butterfly habitat, pollution, etc...

I also am very concerned about endangered species. I am the
1st Lieutenant for the Miami Blue Butterfly Restoration
Project's grassrooots taskforce.  This is a tiny butterfly that is only found 
in
Bahia Honda since it's natural habitat in South Florida was
overrun by construction and mosquito spraying(to stop humans
from complaining when on vacation in the Florida Keys).
When I surveyed the site, I found this little creature in a
tiny area. The NABA "environmentalists" had destroyed the
plants this butterfly feeds and lays eggs on as they so
carelessly trampled over the plants to get a glimpse at this
butterfly. I walked along an adjacent path and saw the
butterfly upclose and personal without having to step into
it's fragile environment.  But then again, I'm not a
scientist with preconceived notions of what's right and
wrong.

Monarchs, Gulf Frits, Zebras, Julias, Queens, Malachite,
Painted ladies, Swallowtails are not endangered.  Florida
has an abundance of milkweed, passion fruit, citrus trees
and other plants required by these butterflies to survive.
But how can they continue do so when we keep spraying to
keep the caterpillars from destroying these plants?  It
isn't the commercial breeder spraying these plants.
Commercial breeders are restricted by the USDA and their
ridiculous regulations as to which species can be shipped
across state lines.  We only ship what is permitted.
So am I legal?  As per the USDA regulations, what I am doing
is perfectly legal.

Ask the USDA about genetically engineered corn and how it
has affected the Monarch population in the Midwest. But
there are no restrictions on this since it makes politicians
money. Ask the USDA what genetically engineered corn does to
humans, but who cares about humans when we can complain
about butterflies.

It has been scientifically proven time and time again that
butterflies will migrate(Monarchs) back to the correct spots
even if shipped across country. So how are farm raised
butterflies affecting this?  They aren't. Farm raised
butterflies aren't brain washing the wild population to
retaliate against mother nature and head to Atlantic City
for the winter when they should be headed to Mexico for some
chips and salsa.  Where's the proof?  The environmentalists
tag butterflies to prove something. Dunno what, but
something. I guess.

What really happens is that they have to pay dirt poor
Mexicans $5 per recovered tagged Monarch.  Let's think
logically for a second.  I'm poor. Some schmuck is paying $5
for an orange tag. Let's go butterfly hunting!  750 Million Monarchs and a 
few
thousand have orange tags.  Sounds like the proverbial
needle in a butterfly hay stack. But $5 pays for alot in
Mexico when your poor, so what's a few dead Monarchs in
comparison to the well being of the "really" exploited.
Great idea environmentalists!

I am still trying to understand the logic of your comment of
"exploitation". These farm raised butterflies wouldn't have
existed without our intervention. I don't put them to work
in illicit sweat shops making ladies undergarments but
rather release them during family events in open areas where
they can join the dwindling local populations.

Why do you believe that they are not allowed to migrate to
flowering areas if these butterflies that are indigenous to
the area are released during a wedding, funeral, etc?
How are they restricted from feeding on locally found
plants? I guess the environmentalists would lead you to
believe that the breeders have slipped them a potion to
confuse them for monetary gains.  Damn breeders!

Please read more on http:www.butterflybreeders.org about the
Butterfly Controversy. You'll find that the IBBA,
International Butterfly Breeders, have time and time again
asked the USDA, NABA and other agencies for their scientific
facts to their claims.  So far, Zip!

The IBBA has spent lots of $$ and time proving why our
release industry is a benefit and not a hindrance to the
local lep populations.

And most importantly Mari, we are talking about insects
aren't we?

If people are so concerned about insects, then the
insecticide companies would all be out of business. But who
wants a roach, ant, slug, wasp, mosquito released at their
wedding?

Please explain the claims you make in your email.  Where is
the proof?

I also tag and monitor the butterflies I release. I will
start in late August tagging to prove or disprove, that
there is a non-migratory band of renegade Monarchs, who
probably moved here years ago from NY or Jersey and just
won't leave. I don't see the environmentalists doing the
same here in South Florida.

NABA thinks butterflies should be seen and not touched.  So
what happens when school children learn about metamorphosis?
If they had their way the life cycle of the butterfly will be:
egg
larvae
pupae
adult
trash-can

Since home grown butterflies are a "danger" to the
environment they mustn't be let loose. That's a great lesson t
o teach our children in this already pathetic society we live in.
Let's teach them the value of life by destroying all that is
beautiful just because someone without any proven facts thinks it bad!

Let's get the facts out to the general public and not just
nonsensical hype. As I stated in my opening statement; this was not intended
to be a personal attack against you.


Thanks,

Jose Muniz
954.575.9047
800.808.6276

Amazing Butterflies
Where the Magic is Just a Flutter Away
http://www.amazingbutterflies.com
==============================================================================

=========
Here is Jose's Addendum: (He is obviously pissed now!)

Mari,

My customers choose their preference when they purchase
butterflies from me.
Why would I want to give money to people who want to
shutdown my only source of income?
Oops, I forgot, commercial breeders are stupid!

Alana Edwards and Jeffry Glasberg won't even speak to the
Miami Blue Restoration people since they are too good to be
associated with us.  They are only in it for themselves and
I won't be a part of their game. I don't see them helping
our project with donations.

You can't be on both sides. Either it's right to release
farm raised butterflies or it's not.It's like being a theif and working 
as the cop at the same time.

Jose
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I am posting this to Nature Potpourri, Leps List and TILS-LEPS-TALK. I would 
post it elswhere but I got flamed yesterday because I put a National  Audubon 
News Release on a Florida Sierra Chapter List. I will leave it up to IBBA to 
to send this to their channels. Incidentaly, Rick Mickula, when are you going 
to answer my e mail? I need to know when these 40,000 Press Realeses are 
going out for MBBRP. I am am mercilous arent't I? :) Alana said I am a 
"harsh" man. Love it! 

"Only say what you want to do and do what you say you will" No time for BSers

Bob
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