[leps-talk] Papilio machaon aliaska

Ron Gatrelle gatrelle at tils-ttr.org
Mon Mar 4 18:15:51 EST 2002

When we first came up with the concept of these multiple lists any number
of marketing strategies were discussed in addition to the utilitarian
aspects.  The term "Politically Correct" is "in" right now and that was a
factor in the phrase "taxonomically Correct"   Then of course, once put up
there have been any number of "what the *&$11? is with this title?"   Harry
and I both had several discourses with various persons who did not like the
word "correct".   At this point we have so much work to do that titles of
lists/indexes are way down at the bottom of our to do lists.    In fact I
am answering this rather than Harry just so he doesn't have to bother with

The word correct relates to the methodology of composition.  This is the
correct way to go about this - heavy on published papers and low on
personal opinion - public and adjustable -  on-line so up to date.  If one
thinks about it this is the only way it makes sense.  In the intro it
clearly states that the index is not The List etc.  So the only way
"correct" in the title can not be a contradiction of the intro is in what
one connects "correct" with.  Correct does not mean it is without flaw - or
flat out wrong in some ways ( i.e. what exists in nature is different).
We have said before that if that one word is too distracting we will come
up with something else.  But right now our big problem is a technical one.
The list is pretty much done as are the notes, we have just had a hard time
getting it up do to some programming problems with the functionality.  (It
will all be in drop down type of windows - click on the genus and the
species come up in it - click on the species and all the synonymy comes up.
This is out of Harry's hands.  I know he must be very frustrated with

For now we have a "temp" list up that is just about the same as the
Miller/Brown in most places.   We feel this is worth while as many lepsters
have no access to any scientific list of this scope whatsoever.   We have a
choice to be negative or positive about this index/list.  If one will look
over the first few genera of the skippers one will see what the entire list
will one day look like - pretty thorough stuff!!!   If one will look at the
few notes that are up one will see that no other list offers anything near
such thorough "background" information.  Even if one totally disagrees with
"placements" or which research won-out in close cases -- the overall format
and methodology is about as good as it gets - I call this SYSTEM correct.
NO list can be flawless, without need of update, or not subjective in some

Spring is around the corner ;^)

Ron Gatrelle
TILS president
Charleston, SC - USA

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Warren" <warrena at mail.science.orst.edu>
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 3:09 PM
Subject: RE: [leps-talk] Papilio machaon aliaska

> I wonder if Pavulaan and Gatrelle* still call their list "taxonomically
> correct"?  The title alone has led me to question the methods in which
> correctness of a taxon name is evaluated.  As Felix has shown, the stated
> guidelines of the "TC"-ISBN will not necessarily lead to a "correct"
> decision, under all viewpoints.  As I tried to point out on leps-l
> there is no such thing as a "correct" taxonomic list (it is in the
> archives).  Anyone who claims to have a/the "correct" taxonomic list is
> simply
> dreaming.  I think Norbert is correct that this "TC"-ISBN listing has
> tremendous potential (way above and beyond what other lists offer), but
> with a name like "taxonomically correct", I doubt that there is a single
> professionally trained  systematist or taxonomist that will take the list
> seriously.  Just my two cents, again.
> Andy Warren
> * sorry Ron if you are not involved with the decision making related to
> the "TC"-ISBN; I am purposefully picking on you...


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