Bob Parcelles,Jr. rjparcelles at
Sun Mar 10 22:15:29 EST 2002

--- Paul Cherubini <monarch at> wrote:
> Bob wrote:
> > The monarch's winter roosts are fragile as you well know. If
> > the density of trees change the, the temp changes and so on...the
> > monarch's freeze. 
> Bob, no one has ever noticed a correlation between forest density
> and monarch mortality during storms and freezes in Mexico.  
> For example, look at what happened this year:
> MONARCH           OYAMEL FIR       MONARCH           
> COLONY                DENSITY             MORTALITY
>                               TREES / ACRE      JAN. 2002 FREEZE   
> Chincua                 251 trees/acre              30%
> El Rosario             102 trees/acre               47%
> Cerro Pelon            36 trees/acre          minimal mortality
> Herrada                 290 trees/acre         minimal mortality
> And look at what happened during the Jan. 1992 freeze:
> MONARCH           OYAMEL FIR       MONARCH           
> COLONY                DENSITY             MORTALITY
>                               TREES / ACRE     JAN.1992 FREEZE    
> Chincua                 251 trees/acre              25%
> El Rosario             102 trees/acre               25%
> Cerro Pelon            36 trees/acre               70%
> Herrada                290 trees/acre                90%
> I also have photographic evidence that substantiates the first
> set of data above.
> For example in the table above we can see the forest 
> density at Chincua is very high, about 251 trees/ acre.
> Here is a picture of the area of the Chincua forest that the 
> monarchs were using when the Jan. 12, 2002 snowstorm freeze hit:
> Very thick indeed! Now despite this high forest density, when 
> I walked inside this thick forest at Chincua on Feb. 25, 2002 I saw
> heavy butterfly mortality from the Jan 2002 freeze:
> Also in the table we can see the forest density at El Rosario is
> about 102 trees per acre - less than half as thick as at Chincua.
> And here is a picture of the mortality I saw at El Rosario on
> Feb. 23, 2002.
> As you can see, the density of dead monarchs on the ground
> at El Rosario appears similar to what I photographed at Chincua
> Finally, the notion that forest thinning exposes the monarchs to
> more rain, snow and freezing temperatures is misleading because 
> it ignores the fact that monarchs avoid clustering in overly dense 
> portions of the forest to begin with. Instead monarchs "like" to
> cluster in areas of intermediate forest density and which are
> located adjacent to natural or man made clearings in the forest:
> Examples:
> Paul Cherubini
> Placerville, Calif.


Three years ago, data was introduced showing a correllation at the
higher elevations of mean temperature being being lower as density of
fir trees was lessened. I distinctly remember seeing mortality data
corellating to this. I also had a personal conversation with Dr.
Brower in Clearwater during which he discussed this with me. 

Obviously this has to be examkined in refereence to duration of lower
temps etc.

As far as forestry in general I onley approve of clearcutting in
relatively small "blocks" since it does afterall encourage
biodiversity. I am not a "knee-jerk" environmentalist in all
respects. I do however grow weary of the mixture of politics and the
enviornment that is taking place in this country. If the Monarch is a
symbol , that is well. 

I do agree with you and randy in that the mmonarch is in no "real
danger". this does not mean that its winter roosts should not be be
amnaged properly with resppect to the species. 

I do not even like monarchs...they tast bad!


Bob Parcelles, Jr
Pinellas Park, FL
RJP Associates, C2M-BWPTi
rjparcelles at
"Change your thoughts and you change your world."
- Norman Vincent Peale

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