disappointed

[Kelly Richers]

Joseph-I, as an infrequent poster but full reader of this server, apologise for any personal attacks on you for your views, which are obviously perceived as extreme by the readers on this particular server.  As with every group, you are going to find a full spectrum of individuals, both "normal" and extreme in viewpoint.  The difficulty often is in determining which persons are which.  Frequently those who have been attacked see subterfuge in postings they perceive as extreme.  Most collectors I know do so for valid scientific study-those who are mass collectors are not those I know, so they may be the extreme fringe.  In terms of the aspect of killing beautiful creatures, yes it does occur.  Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Everytime you or anyone else drives, you kill more than I could in a lifetime of collecting.  Whether you disparage the intentional killing or not, the result is far worse from bug zappers and automobiles.  As the old saying goes, when boys throw rocks at frogs, the boys throw in fun, but the frogs die in earnest.  Either way, the moths and butterflies are dead.  It is a question of our perception of the activity, and the result.  One housing development does more damage than a lifetime of collecting adult insects.

>>> "Joseph Sugar" <josephsugar736 at hotmail.com> 05/10/02 01:17PM >>>

Holly - I am very sorry you are leaving on my account, or based on how I was treated.  The messages I am receiving off-list are far worse than what is happening on-list, especially from a certain person who keeps calling me a nazi. (I refuse to respond to him off-list)
But I got some very nice and helpful responses off-list and I wish they would have posted to the main list - but I don't blame them.
Ron Gatrelle, who was one of my biggest detractors actually turned out to be a nice guy.  At least he is open minded.
I didn't mean to stir up trouble.  I honestly wanted direction and I did get it off-site.  There are some decent folks on this list.  But I agree there are some real jerks, too.
Joseph
 


 




_______________________________________________ 
Joseph S. 
New York, The US of A 

"A man who preserves a life, saves a life. 
A man who saves a life, gives life. 
A man who gives life, is a woman." 
_______________________________________________ 



>From: PineWarblr at aol.com 
>Reply-To: PineWarblr at aol.com 
>To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu 
>Subject: disappointed 
>Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:45:32 EDT 
> 
> Lepidopterists- 
> I have been a subscriber to this list for three years now. I am not a 
>collector, but watch bugs (all insects), particularly moths and butterflies, 
>through binoculars and with magnifying glasses. Over the years, I have 
>remained on the list to learn about lepidoptera from other leps enthusiasts. 
>I am now appalled with the completely unprofessional and childish responses 
>to Joseph Sugar. I am surprised that a list with a variety of Ph.D's and 
>professional entomologists and lepidopterists would respond in such a harsh 
>way to a person who is voicing an opinion, regardless if it were not one in 
>which a lot of you agree with. This is a public listserv to my knowledge. 
>Anyone can find it and subscribe. There are going to be people out there who 
>will join who will not agree with the general consensus. That's part of 
>humanity. It was a shame that Joseph was treated the way he was. I didn't 
>think that his original post was offensive, he just didn't understand why 
>people collect bugs. If the responses to him would have been professional and 
>educational instead of insulting and accusatory, I think everyone would have 
>been much better off. 
> I am now leaving this list and am delighted to have found a new bug list 
>which does not tolerate such unprofessionalism and bashing of others. 
> Good Leps to everyone- 
> Holly C. Merker 
> Downingtown, PA 
> Pinewarblr at aol.com 
> OR 
> HCybelle at aol.com 
> 
> 
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