Monarch Migration Predicted to be Extinct within 16 years

Grkovich, Alex agrkovich at
Tue Oct 7 20:58:20 EDT 2003

...and "asking" for $100 million to do the spewing of the rhetoric...

God, I sure hope the Governments are not so foolish to actually ante up the
money...The citizenry needs it more...layoffs every day up here in
Boston...a Architect friend just called to tell he's no longer with the same
firm, and he just got married...

Let's put the people back in caves, while we "save the Monarch"...  

-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Bordelon
To: patfoley at; Ron Gatrelle
Cc: monarch at; leps-l at
Sent: 10/7/03 7:58 PM
Subject: Re: Monarch Migration Predicted to be Extinct within 16 years

What's this "WE," stuff, white man?  I see a bunch of Monarch freaks
rhetoric with a high-browed point of view that only Man can appreciate
wonders and glories bestowed upon creation.  On just this planet.  How
narrow-minded and arrogant can the Human race become?  We plunder, we
If God likes it, that's good enough for me.  Having the audacity to
this was all made for us is ludicrous.  If you really care, shut up and
something.  cb
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Foley" <patfoley at>
To: "Ron Gatrelle" <gatrelle at>
Cc: <monarch at>; <leps-l at>
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: Monarch Migration Predicted to be Extinct within 16 years

> Ron,
> Human interest in nature extends beyond the material substances
> involved. I believe that you recognize this as much as anyone.
> If we kept all the DNA of every organism and removed their behaviors,
> cultures and strategies, the world would be a more empty place,
> or not humans were around to observe the phenomena that were gone.
> Patrick
> patfoley at
> Ron Gatrelle wrote:
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Patrick Foley" <patfoley at>
> > Subject: Re: Monarch Migration Predicted to be Extinct within 16
> >
> >
> >
> >>Did Brower blunder? Or did he warn? Is the habitat in Mexico secure
> >>Brower gets ten more years on his "blunder", based on the quote you
> >>link. And note, Brower is not claiming that Monarchs will be extinct
> >>ten years, he is claiming that the Eastern migratory phenomenon is
> >>likely to be extinguished. I think Brower may be wrong, partly
> >>he was right to push for the protection of the overwintering sites.
> >>I also think that the migratory phenomenon is more fragile than you
> >>At some point of overwintering mortality in Mexico, the Eastern
> >>population is going to be under strong selection to avoid it.
> >
> >
> > _IF_ pretty much everyone agrees that this is not a matter of
> > species extinction but preservation of a phenomenon (strategy
> > then why is the _phenomenon_ so important? Humans are the only
> > earth that is aware of this phenomenon is and what it is about.
> >
> > Knowing this is really about a phenomenon (like Old Faithful) tells
> > we now have a growing multimillion dollar tourist industry growing
> > it.   Fly the thousands of Monarch Tourists (or shallow phenomenon
> > tourists?) on fossil fuel guzzling planes to Mexico full, build
> > throw in a few night spots, bars, build, pollute, destroy X patch of
> > (no Monarchs in it so its OK) and build the motel with a great view,
> > and on.
> >
> > Sorry, if this is just about preserving a phenomenon for _our_
> > enviro-industry enjoyment I want nothing to do with it.   I'd rather
> > Brower talk about potential extinction - that would merit millions
> > intervention.
> >
> > Ron Gatrelle
> >
> > PS  Evolved phenomenon (like flight or lack thereof) are transitory.
> > humans tend to want to keep only those that appeal to our romantic
> > prejudices.   An insect sucking nectar from a flower is great -
> > flowers.  An insect sucking blood from us is horrible - kill all the
> > mosquitoes.   HUmmmmm, well, this has to be.... I bet there is, or
> > soon be, a mosquito abatement program at the Monarch overwintering
> > tourist don't put up with nasty biting or stinging BUGS!!   If this
> > such an important and delicate area, than it should have all the
> > people moved out, no tourists allowed, and the entire region
returned to
> > pristine wilderness sanctuary only accessable by scientists.  I mean
> > can't walk on Old Faithful the last I checked.
> >
> > PPS   Don't anyone get on my case, as sarcasm and overstatement is
> > self reflection - esp. to egotists.
> >
> > PPISSISS I did. What happened to Tampa Bay???  Go Colts!!!!
> >
> >
> >
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