[leps-talk] RE: Fwd: Monarch saviors. Say what?

Jonathan Sylvestre josylvestre at sympatico.ca
Wed Mar 10 14:48:38 EST 2004


"There aren't enough butterfly collectors around to make that much of
anything extinct"
"As many people on this list have said before, its not the collectors its
the habitat"

I agree that its the destruction of habitat that make (and that will make)
many species endangered. But what you will do with a species that have lost
the major part of its habitat ? or a local and rare subspecies ? I think
that in this case, if many people collect the surviving specimens, maybe it
will not cause the extinction, but it will not help them. Also, I hope you
agree me when i say that there is two kind of collectors : collector that
study lepidoptera to know them more, to help them,  and other collector that
search for the rarer specimens to make money. The second kind know more the
price of a specimen on the market than the biology of the species or its
state. When i said that access should be limited in some place (like parks),
I meant that access should be limited to collector of the first type. I
think that collecting lepidoptera in park should be possible for everyone
who want to collect (except the second type). But it must have a control,
especially in fragile habitat so that there is the less interferences as

"Robert Kriegel" <kriegelr at msu.edu> a écrit dans le message de
news: at pilot.msu.edu...
> > The problem is how many people can collect butterflies before making all
> > species endangered or extinct ? And How many people can have access
> > to the forest before making it like a ctity park on cutted grass with
> undred
> > of trails everywhere etc...
> Hang on there partner.  There aren't enough butterfly collectors around to
> make that much of anything extinct, even if we were all the evil life
> sucking kidnapper types we have often been portrayed as.  As many people
> this list have said before, its not the collectors its the habitat, you
> silly rabbit. And I agree, let's limit people's access to the forest.  I
> think the best thing to do for the long term safety and national security
> of our natural resources is to strictly limit access to all federal and
> state lands to oil companies, loggers and mining operators.  Oh yeah, and
> anyone on an ORV or snowmobile who is traveling with a loaded firearm and
> whiskey.  So long as we make them buy vehicle passes and use the
> stands we'll make plenty of money to keep the toilets serviced, the roads
> paved and the picnic tables clean.  And as for overpopulation, is the
> problem America's fecundity rate, its immigration rate, our God given
> to live in the suburbs, or greed-based public policies that lead to the
> mini-mall-ificiation of America?  Don't get me going!
> But realistically folks, the percentage of our national park and national
> forest lands that are experiencing the kind of tourist pressure that
> Yosemite is are very small.  Extreme cases do call for extreme measures.
> And, as for the butterfly collecting is illegal signs, were those posted
> national forest land or national park property?  National parks have been
> off limits to collecting without a research permit for many years.  And,
> since you can't keep reference specimens from national parks even with a
> research permit, I choose to conduct my studies elsewhere.  I choose not
> see this as my problem, but rather as their loss.  Non-commercial insect
> collecting on MOST national forest land is NOT a problem.  And as for the
> throngs of collectors, heck I spent more than 3 weeks sampling on national
> forest lands last season in the Great Lakes region and the only collectors
> I ever saw were the 1 or 2 lepidopterists who occasionally accompanied me.
> Although a couple of years ago one of my buddies did run into a group of 4
> British bird watchers who were lost in a very large bog complex in a
> Michigan national forest.  They had headed into the bush a couple of hours
> earlier without water, map or compass in search of an elusive migrating
> spring warbler.  During their meanderings they had seen a coyote that they
> convinced themselves was a wolf, so they ad about had it when my friend
> happened upon them.  The best part is they were less than 200 yards from
> the 2-track the entire time.
> I should mention that a substantial portion of that time last season was
> spent on NF lands because forest service personnel asked me to come there
> and sample.  No survey work had ever been done there and they had no idea
> what species they had on their lands.  Yes I did keep reference material.
> Yes, I am depositing vouchers in a public institution.  And yes, they will
> now have to take a couple of sensitive species into consideration in their
> management plans.
> Bob
>  ------------------------------------------------------------ 
>    For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit:
>    http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl


   For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit:


More information about the Leps-l mailing list