[Mendele] Mendele: Yiddish literature and language Vol. 20.012

[Victor Bers]

Mendele: Yiddish literature and language
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Contents of Vol. 20.012
December 19, 2010

1) iberzetsn Shire Gorshmans "Di bobe malke" (Alan Shuchat)
2) iberzetsn Shire Gorshmans "Di bobe malke" (Faith (Nomi) Jones)
3) iberzetsn Shire Gorshmans "Di bobe malke" (Hugh Denman)
4) iberzetsn Shire Gorshmans "Di bobe malke" (Leyzer Gillig)
5) iberzetsn Shire Gorshmans "Di bobe malke" (Lazar Greisdorf)
6) iberzetsn Shire Gorshmans "Di bobe malke"( Refoyl Finkel)
7) iberzetsn Shire Gorshmans "Di bobe malke" (Leonard Fox)
8) iberzetsn Shire Gorshmans "Di bobe malke" (Zulema Seligsohn)
1)----------------------------------------------------
Date:  November 21 Subject: iberzetsn Shire Gorshmans "Di bobe malke"

Some of the words Yankev Ginsberg asks about are taken directly from 
Russian/Ukrainian:

SAMOHON - zi hot im oysgelernt, vi azoy tsu makhn fun samohon a geshmake 
mashke This means moonshine. It's the Russian samogon, literally "self- 
distilled," analogous to samizdat (self-published). The "g" in samogon is 
probably pronounced as an "h" in Ukrainian.

MOLODYETS - ay babke bist a molodyets Molodets means something like "atta 
boy/girl," "well done," valiant.

STAROSTE - di bobe malke hot shoyn gevust, az Vlades iz staroste in dorf 
The starosta was a village elder or head of the community (an official 
position).

BABKE Baba can mean several things, including a peasant woman, not just an 
old woman or a grandmother.

Alan Shuchat

2)----------------------------------------------------
Date: December 20 Subject: iberzetsn Shire Gorshmans "Di bobe malke"

ikh frey zikh zeyer az Yankev Ginsberg zetst iber Shire Gorshmans zeyer 
fayne dertseylung, Di bobe Malke. Mayne a khaverte, Jennifer Kronovet, hot 
zi ibergezetst af English, un ikh gedenk az zi hot gefregt a sakh litvakes 
vegn di dialektishe verter. Jennifers iberzetsung gefint zikh in 
"Beautiful as the Moon, Radiant as the Stars" un in dem zetst zi iber 
azoy:

ramoynkes--chamomile laymenem liyok--clay jug kahanets--fire (dakht zikh 
mir, dos meynt a wood-burning stove oder vos me ruft do in kanade a 
"Quebec heater") firhoyz, firhayzl--anteroom oysgeshayerte 
mednitse--scoured copper pan antonovkes, plostn--herbs and onions 
samohon--homebrew molodyets--ikh ken es nisht gefinen in englisher 
iberzetsung, nor geveyntlekh iz dos emetser zeyer shtark un brav 
staroste--German-appointed governor (in dem kontekst--ken oykh zayn a 
police chief, meyn ikh)

Agev, say Jennifer say ikh hobn gepruvt gefinen di yorshim vos darfn zayn 
in erets- yisroel. Gorshman hot gehat nor tekhter un aponim hobn ale 
khasene gehat un gebitn di nemen--ikh hob ongeklungen yeder Gorshman in 
Yisrael un zey nisht gefinen.

Vareme grusn, Faith (Nomi) Jones

3)----------------------------------------------------
Date: November 25 Subject:  iberzetsn Shire Gorshmans "Di bobe malke"

Fraynd Ginsburg raises a number of lexical queries (20.009: 6). In the 
absence of more extensive contexts, the meanings appear to be as follows:

RAMOYNKES - zumer flegt dos erdene dekhl bavaksen vern mit mente, 
ramoynkes: camomile.

LIYOK - flegt zi mitn egberl makhn lekhlekh, tsubinden a leymenem  li(y)ok 
- es zol tripn
(dripn): mud and salt poultice?

KAHANETS - nit oysleshndik di kahanets: small lamp/ night light.

FIRHOYZ, FIRHAYZL - dos alte porfolk hot zi gelozt ba zikh in firhayzl 
lebn khazer: hall/ entrance/ vestibule.

MEDNITSE, ANTONOVKES, PLOSTN - [di gendz] arayngeleygt in an 
oysgeshayerter mednitse, arumgeleygt antonovkes un plostn, arayngeshtelt 
in oyvn: copper pot; antonovka, variety of hardy Russian cooking apple; 
roach (fish).

SAMOHON - zi hot im oysgelernt, vi azoy tsu makhn fun samohon a geshmake 
mashke: moonshine/ poteen.

MOLODYETS - ay babke bist a molodyets: oh, granny, you're a real sport/ 
well done granny!

STAROSTE - di bobe malke hot shoyn gevust, az Vlades iz staroste in dorf: 
village elder/ head.

BOBE, BABKE, BABESHI - ikh farshtey di verter: bobe =grandmother/midwife; 
babke = diminutive of bobe, OR old lady?; babeshi = ?: all of these 
meanings depending on context (see Niborski).

Hugh Denman [Moderator's Note: Moyshe Khorvits offered a similar response 
and recommends consulting Mordkhe Schaechter's Dictionary of Flora and 
Fauna.]

4)----------------------------------------------------
Date: November 27 Subject: iberzetsn Shire Gorshmans "Di bobe malke"

Can't help with the rest, but...

These are all Slavic words.  "Babeshi" is indeed a diminutive of "Baba" - 
grandmother. A Polish neighbor of mine when I was growing up called his 
grandmother "Babeshi".

"Samohon" is "Moonshine" - home brewed liquor. In Russian the H is usually 
a hard G sound ... SamaGON.

"Molodyets" is a term of approval, sort of like saying "Grandma, you da 
MAN!" It's a common expression in Russian.

"Staroste" is like the mayor of a town.

I think the vast number of Russian words used by Yiddish writers of yore 
is significant, because it shows that Yiddish was - and remains - a living 
language, and not a museum piece.  When Yiddish-speaking Chassidic mothers 
in Williamsburg, Brooklyn say "Malki, jump nisht oyf di stairs oder du 
vest dikh hurten" (I heard that once), they are doing the same thing. 
Familiar words and phrases are brought into the language. Unfortunately, 
people from other places or eras may not always understand or approve, but 
this is what a living language does.

"Firhoyz or firhayzl (diminutive of firhoyz)" is not a Slavic word - it 
means a sort of mud-room or vestibule or something like that. In rural 
Russia, it may have been the place where the animals were kept in winter. 
"fir"= "fore-"; hoyz = house.

Leyzer Gillig

5)----------------------------------------------------
Date: December 5 Subject: iberzetsn Shire Gorshman's "Di bobe malke"

Liyok (it should be liyak) is a jug. Firhoyz is an attachment to a house 
like a vestibule or ante-room. Mednitse is a large pot for cooking or for 
washing dishes. Antonovkes are a variety of apples. Samohon is homemade 
alcohol. Molodyets is an over-achiever. Staroste is a town mayor. Babke is 
a cake and has nothing to do with a grandmother.

Lazar Greisdorf.

6)----------------------------------------------------
Date: November 20 Subject: iberzetsn Shire Gorshman's "Di bobe malke"

To begin to answer Yankev Ginsberg's questions, I looked in Der Groyser 
Verterbukh, Mordke Shaechter's Geviksn, and Stutshkoff's Oytser for 
relevant citations.

MEDNITSE, ANTONOVKES, PLOSTN - [di gendz] arayngeleygt in an 
oysgeshayerter mednitse, arumgeleygt antonovkes un plostn, arayngeshtelt 
in oyvn

Occurs under "oysflyukhen" as "oysflyukhen a mednitse vaser af zayn kop. 
So, it's some sort of container for water.

Stutshkoff lists it under "keylim" with makrete, makerte, makitre, 
zupshisl, terine, lyokhene, lekhanke, latke, punshshisl, mednitse, bak, 
vaze, palumesik, pilimiske, pilmes, fayerke.

LIYOK - flegt zi mitn egberl makhn lekhlekh, tsubinden a laymenem liyok - 
es zol tripn

under "oyslyokn" one finds: "haltn (tunken) in lyok, heringrosl.  So, 
"lyok" is perhaps another container for liquids.

Stutshkoff lists "lyok" along with teykan, tshaynik, druml, lyok - hlyok, 
lyak - hlyak, glyak, khlyak, lyatshik , in the rubrik "keylem"
(vessels).

FIRHOYZ, FIRHAYZL - dos alte porfolk hot zi gelozt ba zikh in firhayzl 
lebn khazer

most likely "forhoyz," which would be "little building in front of the 
main building."

SAMOHON - zi hot im oysgelernt, vi azoy tsu makhn fun samohon a geshmake 
mashke

"untertraybn": "makhn an alkoholishn getrank, bronfn, samohon"

"untertrinken": "untertrinken samohon un krign a lugnfeler"

"ibergetribn": "ibergetribener [filtered] samohon"

"iberzoysn": "iberzoysn samohon un avekfaln a halbtoyter"

It seems to be a dangerously alcoholic beverage, or a substance from which 
one makes the beverage of the same name.  It's not listed in Shaechter's 
Geviksn.

MOLODYETS - ay babke bist a molodyets

Stutshkoff lists along with "braver man, man, held, heldin - heldine, 
heros, [nit rekomendirt] heroy, velt-batsvinger, *giber, *giber-khayel, 
leyb, kozak, khvat, molodyets, a kiond fun der heym, voyler (yung)".

STAROSTE - di bobe malke hot shoyn gevust, az Vlades iz staroste in dorf

"star" is a Slavic root for "old."  Stutshkoff lists "eltster, starshe, 
staroste, shef" as synonyms for "leader."

BOBE, BABKE, BABESHI - ikh farshtey di verter: bobe = grandmother/midwife; 
babke = diminutive of bobe, OR old lady?; babeshi = ?

The -eshi ending is a familiar, translatable as "dear", often used for 
family names: tateshi, mameshi.

Refoyl Finkel

7)----------------------------------------------------
Date: November 21 Subject: iberzetsn Shire Gorshmans "Di bobe malke"

In response to Cedric Ginsberg's vocabulary questions:
1. "ramoynkes" is from the Belarusian "ramonak," meaning "chamomile" (it 
can also mean a "daisy");
2. "kahanets" is Ukrainian for a "night-light";
3. "firhoyz, firhayzl" is a "foyer" or "lobby";
4a. "mednitse" is from the Russian "med'," "copper"; the word probably 
means a copper vessel of some kind;
4b. "antonovkes" - Russian "antonovka," Ukrainian "antonivka," Polish 
"antonowka" is a variety of winter-hardy apple;
5. "samohon" (Russian "samogon") is Ukrainian for home-brewed alcohol - 
moonshine, in other words;
6. "molodyets" is a Russian word applied to someone who does something 
very well, e.g., a child who gets 100 on a test;
7. "staroste" (Russian and Ukrainian "starosta") is a village elder or 
headman.

I will be interested to learn the meanings of "liyok" and "plostn," if any 
Mendelyaner come up with them.

Leonard Fox

8)----------------------------------------------------
Date: November 20 Subject: iberzetsn Shire Gorshmans "Di bobe malke"and a 
note on akshn meshumed

The following I can help with, as can probably many others.  They are from 
Russian or in Russian.

BABESHI can certainly be said to an old woman who is not one's 
grandmother, but that is what it means, and it is affectionate.

MOLODIETZ used in this way is basically "good boy!" or "good girl!" 
regardless of the gender of the recipient.  It means "brave man, good man, 
sharp fellow," all those things.

STAROSTE is (or was) a bailiff or overseer in a village.

FIRHOYZ and its diminutive is the local pronunciation for FORHOYZ, a 
vestibule at the front of the house, like a porch, but it might also be 
detached.

MEDNITSE is a copper roaster or pan.

LIYOK, though it has other unrelated meanings, could be sealing wax.

PLOSTN I can only guess that it might mean fat from the goose.

As for akshn meshumed, I always understood it to be two words with an 
understood comma in between.  When my mother's mother said this to her, my 
mother countered, according to her own story, that she certainly was an 
akshn, but a meshumed she would never be because she didn't believe in any 
religion and therefore would hardly be likely to change it for another.

Zulema Seligsohn

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End of Mendele Vol. 20.012

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