[NHCOLL-L:4185] Re: Large glass jars and closures

Neumann Dirk Dirk.Neumann at zsm.mwn.de
Fri Jan 30 03:39:59 EST 2009


... for smaller sizes, we are using industrial glasses, too (i.e. 
sausage / mixed pickle glasses). Problems are the metal  lids, which may 
start rusting after few years. Normally, the lids for industrial glasses 
containing sour / acidic stuff inside, have a thicker plastic liner 
inside, protecting the metal from condensates and thus preventing  the 
lids from rusting. In the EU, you have to order the glasses and lids 
separately, so you can make sure you have suitable lids which are 
durable against acid condensates. If this kind of lids are not available 
for anchorhocking  glasses, you may try to put an thick PE plastic (like 
the one used to seal specimens for shipping)  between glass mouth and 
lid. This works fine and protects normal metal lids, especially if you 
have alcohols denatured with highly reactive / aggressive denaturing 
agents like MEK.

However, industrial glass (soda-lime glass) is chemically not inert, 
which may cause trouble in the long run if the metal-ions start to 
dissolve from the glass. This is causing not only large problems in the 
collection (e.g. if glasses start cracking without any recognizable 
external influences), but also will damage included specimens since 
dissolved ions may cause drastic shifts of the pH-value.

Dirk

Alan Resetar schrieb:
> Hi:
>
> I can't help with suppliers of wider mouth glass pails.  In regards to 
> 1 and 2.5 gallon jars, I recently ran across a one US gallon glass 
> screw top jar at WalMart made by Anchor-Hocking.  It has a 120mm 
> opening or lid size.  Thus it has the same size opening or lid size as 
> the one gallon jars that are commonly used in wet collections.  These 
> jars are squat and have an embossed pattern on them.  The pattern is 
> pretty neutral and seems to be for gripping the jar rather than 
> decoration.  The price per jar at WalMart was less than $6 US per 
> jar.  I would guess that quantity discounts can be found at other 
> venders.  The single jar that I purchased and tested for lid fit 
> seemed fine.  Here is the website for the jar - 
> http://www.anchorhocking.com/prodd_4494_cat_25_cracker_jar.html  Here 
> is a better picture 
> http://www.cooking.com/products/shprodde.asp?SKU=164275 .  Contacting 
> Anchor Hocking should be a way to get more detailed specs on the jar 
> as well as info on venders for volume purchases.  Anyone interested in 
> this jar should purchase a few and test them to make sure that the 
> jars perform as expected.  It is best to test.  I would not use the 
> lids that come with the jars but rather use the standard polypropylene 
> lids with polyethylene liners.
>
> It looks like Anchor Hocking also carries the 2.5 US gallon "pickle 
> barrels."  I don't see specs on lid size but pickle barrels like these 
> have a 120mm opening or lid size.  These are embossed with barrel type 
> markings like straps and a bung.  However the embossing is not 
> "jarring" and looks perfectly acceptable in the collection. See 
> http://www.anchorhocking.com/prodd_4341_cat_25_barrel.html  Our only 
> issues with the older manufacture pickle barrels is that the two piece 
> wire bails have to be installed on site with pliers.  The assembler 
> has to make sure to securely close the open end of the one part of the 
> bail that clamps around the other half of the bail.  After about 20 
> years, some of the wood or plastic handles that are used to cushion 
> the hand while carrying the jar start to split.  This is not a huge 
> problem.  The bail stays intact but the jar can be uncomfortable to 
> carry long distances.  If the handle goes completely, handles like 
> this might work to cushion the hand - 
> http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog_name=USPlastic&category_name=20326&product_id=29204&cookie_test=1 
> <http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog_name=USPlastic&category_name=20326&product_id=29204&cookie_test=1> 
> or this 
> http://ashton-home-products-inc.amazonwebstore.com/BucketHelper/M/B000KJVYFG.htm
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Alan
>
> Alan Resetar (Mr.)
> Collection Manager
> Division of Amphibians and Reptiles
> Field Museum of Natural History
> 1400 S. Lake Shore Dr.
> Chicago, Illinois 60605-2496 USA
> 1-312-665-7768 - Phone
> 1-312-665-7932 - Fax
> aresetar at fieldmuseum.org <mailto:aresetar at fieldmuseum.org> - E-mail
> Please check our collection website at 
> http://fm1.fieldmuseum.org/collections/search.cgi?dest=herps
> Please check our reprint website at 
> http://www.fmnh.org/research_collections/zoology/aandr_reprints.htm   
>        
>   
> http://www.fieldmuseum.org/biodiversity/scientist_profiles/scientist_resetar.html
> <((((( ·´¯'·.¸¸.·´¯'·.¸.·´¯'·.¸¸.·´¯'·.¸¸.·´¯'·.¸¸.·´¯'·.¸¸.·´ ° >--- <
>
> On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 4:09 AM, Moore, Simon 
> <simon.moore at hants.gov.uk <mailto:simon.moore at hants.gov.uk>> wrote:
>
>     Hi Chris,
>
>     Have you considered stainless steel tanks?  They have the
>     advantage of being more robust and less vulnerable to physical
>     knocks and if you use a thick glass lid then you can see the
>     specimens and any problems that may occur to them.  I am always
>     slightly apprehensive of larger containers if made of glass.
>
>     The National Museum of Ireland use these and if you need contact
>     details there, let me know.
>
>
>     With all good wishes,
>     Simon Moore, MIScT, FLS, ACR,
>     Senior Conservator of Natural Sciences.
>     Hampshire County Council
>     Recreation & Heritage Department,
>     Museums & Archives Service,
>     Chilcomb House, Chilcomb Lane,
>     Winchester SO23 8RD. UK.
>     Internal  8 327 6737
>     01962 826737
>     http://www.hants.gov.uk/museum/biology
>
>
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: owner-nhcoll-l at lists.yale.edu
>     <mailto:owner-nhcoll-l at lists.yale.edu>
>     [mailto:owner-nhcoll-l at lists.yale.edu
>     <mailto:owner-nhcoll-l at lists.yale.edu>] On Behalf Of Neumann Dirk
>     Sent: 29 January 2009 08:25
>     To: christophermatthewstinson at gmail.com
>     <mailto:christophermatthewstinson at gmail.com>
>     Cc: NHCOLL-L at lists.yale.edu <mailto:NHCOLL-L at lists.yale.edu>
>     Subject: [NHCOLL-L:4181] Re: Large glass jars and closures
>
>     Hi Chris,
>
>     similar problems here in Europe. One of the last providers of
>     larger glasses for natural history collections, Stölzle Oberglas
>     from Austria, seem to have stopped production of glasses with
>     ground stoppers.
>     Confronted with the situation that we had to store approx. 120 kg
>     of deep sea sharks with up to 1 m length, we have been lucky in
>     finding a company specialised in producing chemical glassware
>     components (such as dessicators, condensers, etc.). For production
>     of our large glass containers (up to 1200 mm hight and diameter of
>     250 mm), Schott Duran glass tubes (borosilicate glass) are used,
>     which are available up to an diameter of 250 mm. Glasses made from
>     these glass tubes look like a big beaker closed with a flat
>     grounded glass pane on a surface grinding.
>     With this technique, glasses of all sizes are possible, avoiding
>     bottle necks and cracking plastic liners.
>
>     Pricing is comparable to "normal" ground glasses, e.g. a glass
>     with 130 mm diameter and a hight of 400 mm costs ca. 75,- Eur
>     (approx. 100,- U$).
>
>     I will copy you the homepage of our German provider so you get an
>     idea, surely there are similar companies in Canada as well.
>     http://www.ggm-glastechnik.de/1280/start1280.htm
>
>     Hope this helps
>
>     Dirk
>
>
>
>     Chris Stinson schrieb:
>     > Hi,
>     >
>     > I was wondering if anyone could give me a source for glass jars
>     larger
>     > than 1gal, preferably 3-6gal sizes with wide mouths(130mm).  Also if
>     > anyone could point me in the direction of closures for such jars -
>     > ideally polypropylene with polyethylene liners.  These will be
>     used to
>     > house fluid preserved fish specimens.  If there are any ideas for
>     > glass jars or other types of containers  of similar size to 5 or
>     6 gal
>     > glass jars with wider mouths any info would also be
>     > appreciated.   I have already  found some polycarbonate containers
>     > from University Products but I'm not sure of their long term
>     viability.
>     >
>     > Thanks
>     > Chris Stinson
>     > Assistant Curator
>     > Beaty Biodiversity Museum, UBC
>     > Vancouver, BC
>     >
>
>
>


-- 
Dirk Neumann

Tel: 089 / 8107-111
Fax: 089 / 8107-300
email: Dirk.Neumann at zsm.mwn.de

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Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
Zoologische Staatssammlung München
Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Labor
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81247 München

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---------

Dirk Neumann

Tel: +49-89-8107-111
Fax: +49-89-8107-300
email: Dirk.Neumann at zsm.mwn.de

postal address:

Bavarian Natural History Collections
The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Lab
Muenchhausenstr. 21
81247 Munich (Germany)

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