[NHCOLL-L:5201] RE: the extinction of natural historians
Watkins-Colwell, Gregory
gregory.watkins-colwell at yale.edu
Tue Jan 25 09:06:38 EST 2011
Regarding funding: there may also be a sense that because our kind of work often doesn't require expensive fancy equipment (PCR, Sequencers, etc.) that a pair of binoculars and an airline ticket should be cheap and easily afforded. This is, of course, flawed thinking. A good study involving life history, morphology, ecology, behavior or any combo of anything either instead of, or in addition to molecules, will require more funds in the long term. I remember in grad school talking about "long term studies" in ecology and pointing out that most studies that are considered long-term are not so from the perspective of the species being studied. For example, a long-term study of a tortoise population will, at best, be for the career of the PI but not for very many generations of tortoise. Thus a really good long-term study of a long-lived species needs to encompass a few human careers.. and that surely costs more than a PCR and a Sequencer.
greg
--------------------------------------
Gregory J. Watkins-Colwell
Division of Vertebrate Zoology
Yale Peabody Museum of Natural History
170 Whitney Avenue, Box 208118
New Haven, CT 06520
203/432-3791 or fax: 203/432-2874
-----------------------------------
From: owner-nhcoll-l at lists.yale.edu [mailto:owner-nhcoll-l at lists.yale.edu] On Behalf Of John Grehan
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 7:44 AM
To: Hansen.Gayle at epamail.epa.gov
Cc: FURTHD at si.edu; JPRICE at mus-nature.ca; malcolm.mccallum at herpconbio.org; NHCOLL-L at lists.yale.edu; owner-nhcoll-l at lists.yale.edu
Subject: [NHCOLL-L:5200] RE: the extinction of natural historians
Some might combined molecular and morphological data, but in general it boils down to molecular approaches to natural history being given priority over purely morphogenetic. As you point out "our textbooks" (but not mine), "use molecular data to build a framework". Combining the data is problematic since molecular data involves analysis of only four interchangeable characters rather than comparing derived conditions for individual characters.
But agree, natural history is underfunded. I get the impression it is because it is 'descriptive' and not 'molecular' and therefore not 'science'
John Grehan
________________________________
From: Hansen.Gayle at epamail.epa.gov [mailto:Hansen.Gayle at epamail.epa.gov]
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 8:16 PM
To: John Grehan
Cc: FURTHD at si.edu; JPRICE at mus-nature.ca; malcolm.mccallum at herpconbio.org; NHCOLL-L at lists.yale.edu; owner-nhcoll-l at lists.yale.edu
Subject: Re: [NHCOLL-L:5198] the extinction of natural historians
What a comment! In my field, the study of algae, we use both molecular and morphological data to derive the our phylogenetic conclusions. Although our textbooks use molecular data to build a framework, they still rely heavily on morphology and ecology to tell their stories.
And yes, we are still describing new species and studying their life histories. Cataloging them, as expensive as it might be, is essential because it makes it so much easier for us to interpret their distribution and abundance.
Natural history as a field is not dead -- it is just underfunded.
Gayle Hansen, Ph. D
Oregon State University
From: "John Grehan" <jgrehan at sciencebuff.org>
To: <FURTHD at si.edu>, <malcolm.mccallum at herpconbio.org>, "JPRICE at mus-nature.ca" <JPRICE at MUS-NATURE.CA>
Cc: <NHCOLL-L at lists.yale.edu>
Date: 01/23/2011 08:00 PM
Subject: [NHCOLL-L:5198] Re: :
Sent by: owner-nhcoll-l at lists.yale.edu
________________________________
So long as morphologists (morphogeneticists really) run down their work as subservient to molecular DNA theories of relationship I predict that the natural history/biology side of understanding the evolution of biodiversity will continue to be treated with relative contempt.
John Grehan
________________________________
From: owner-nhcoll-l at lists.yale.edu [mailto:owner-nhcoll-l at lists.yale.edu] On Behalf Of Furth, David
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 10:31 AM
To: 'malcolm.mccallum at herpconbio.org'; JPRICE at mus-nature.ca
Cc: NHCOLL-L at lists.yale.edu
Subject: [NHCOLL-L:5197] Re: :
We systematists have recognized this "extinction" for decades, but we have been preaching to the choir. Now with all the lab-oriented (indoor) systematics students are being taught by those who practically do not know the organisms in nature, some don't seem to want to either. Most systematists are impassioned by being in the field, i.e. really ecologists too, and working with collections. After all, some of the most famous ecologists started as taxonomists, e.g., G. Evelyn Hutchinson, Sir Richard Southwood, etc.
Hopefully some future generation will realize that they need to start over with taxonomy/systematics of whole organisms that they really want/need to know in nature; however, due to the "extinction" and the current continuing decline/loss of true natural history science it will be an expense re-start.
******************************************************
David G. Furth, Ph.D.
Department of Entomology
MRC 165, P.O. Box 37012
National Museum of Natural History
Smithsonian Institution
Washington, D. C. 20013-7012 USA
Phone: 202-633-0990
Fax: 202-786-2894
Email: furthd at si.edu<mailto:furthd at si.edu>
Website: www.entomology.si.edu<http://www.entomology.si.edu/>
From: owner-nhcoll-l at lists.yale.edu [mailto:owner-nhcoll-l at lists.yale.edu] On Behalf Of malcolm McCallum
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 3:26 PM
To: JPRICE at mus-nature.ca
Cc: NHCOLL-L at lists.yale.edu
Subject: [NHCOLL-L:5190] Re: :
systematists are not dying out half as fast as those who study the natural history of the species.
There are NSF grant programs to fund systematics and programs to fund specifically the training of systematists.
Currently, there are NO programs to fund natural history nor to fund training natural historians.
Naming an organism without describing its life history is sort of like reading the title of a book and never opening it.
I suppose some students would not get that metaphor! :)
IF you don't know any of its life history its pretty darn difficult to implement meaningful conservation strategies.
Malcolm McCallum
On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 10:52 AM, Judith Price <JPRICE at mus-nature.ca<mailto:JPRICE at mus-nature.ca>> wrote:
Interesting post on Wired Science: http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/01/extinction-of-taxonomists/#<http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/01/extinction-of-taxonomists/>
"We are currently in a biodiversity crisis. A quarter of all mammals face extinction, and 90 percent of the largest ocean fish are gone. Species are going extinct at rates equaled only five times in the history of life. But the biodiversity crisis we are currently encountering isn't just a loss of species, it's also a loss of knowledge regarding them.
"Scientists who classify, describe and examine the relationships between organisms are themselves going extinct. The millions of dollars spent globally on technology to catalog species may actually be pushing out the people we rely upon: taxonomists and systematists. We're like young children frantic to add new baseball cards to our collections, while the actual creators of the baseball cards themselves are vanishing."
Judith
Judith C. Price
Secretary, Society for the Preservation of Natural History Collections
Assistant Collections Manager, Invertebrates / Gestionnaire adjointe des collections invertébrés
Canadian Museum of Nature / Musée canadien de la Nature
PO Box 3443 Station D / CP 3443 Succ <<D>>
Ottawa, Ontario K1P 6P4 CANADA
Tel.613.566.4263 / Fax.613.364.4027
jprice at mus-nature.ca<mailto:jprice at mus-nature.ca>
@nature_jcp
www.nature.ca<http://www.nature.ca/> / www.spnhc.org<http://www.spnhc.org/>
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Herpetological Conservation and Biology
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