[Nhcoll-l] NSC Alliance Washington Report - READ THIS ONE!

Fri Feb 20 13:54:25 EST 2015

We have a salvage provision in our collecting permit, and we have an
arrangement with our regional permitting folks that makes it fairly simple
to add subpermittees.

Dirk, you are right, and as Andy says, there are activities under way to
make this fruitful discussion among like-minded people useful in addressing
the problem at hand.

Best, K.

On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 2:04 AM, Ellen Paul <ellen.paul at verizon.net> wrote:

>  Yes, most major bird collections consist primarily of specimens
> collected under permit or obtained from people who had permits...for the
> period during which there even were permits to be had, which is basically
> the 1970s.
>
> Of course, for many museums, especially the older and larger collections,
> a very large part of the collections consist of specimens obtained from the
> late 1700s to that point when permits were instituted.
>
> As for contributions by people who don't hold permits, this comes up
> mostly in the context of "citizen salvage." For a number of years, there
> was an actual USFWS policy to the effect that this was simply not a high
> priority for Law Enforcement. That policy expired some years ago, but even
> so, it is hard to imagine that this would be a high priority for Law
> Enforcement. Nonetheless, those good citizens who salvage dead birds are
> doing so illegally and museums can't accept those offers under the
> provision Kevin cited. Several years ago, the USFWS proposed a new
> "conservation education" permit under the MBTA and in the context of that
> proposed regulation also addressed the issue of citizen salvage. Sad to say
> that the regulation seems to have died on the vine and so we are still
> without a citizen salvage provision. We continue to push for finalization
> of that regulation, much as we have pushed for years for  citizen salvage
> regulation for many years. However, I am not hopeful.
>
> FYI, 21.23 permits include salvage authority. Not citizen salvage, but
> salvage by anyone authorized to work under the permit, which would include
> all your employees and volunteers working under your supervision.
>
> Ellen
>
> Ellen Paul
> Executive Director
> The Ornithological Council
> Email: ellen.paul at verizon.net
> "Providing Scientific Information about Birds"
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.nmnh.si.edu_BIRDNET&d=AwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=cpjMg8M2jINOq3-L0XdYymOv1vnCzJhhgLRRUpFJAo4&s=rZJ7kYBzopqTWk3JRG9cxRUbVj31_DYj9XHWSSsTUnQ&e= " <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.nmnh.si.edu_BIRDNET&d=AwMD-g&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=khBK7yzCgCcaJzAAjpvVwsmwf6S0ASy103yRqX4QGEo&s=iNLhhGrv_202GC-fbJx56PpotqQ59cObrmRFPfZR1Ko&e=>
>
> On 2/20/15 3:18 AM, Brown, Matthew A wrote:
>
>
> In part I blame being in the office till 1am several nights in a row, but
> your comment about regions finally reminded me that, oh yeah, it's Texas
> museums that need to have that federal permit under 21.27, because Texas
> Parks and Wildlife requires that we have the Federal permit in addition to
> theirs in order to handle migratory birds in the state. Thus, with the
> special purpose permits in hand, we have to report annually even if we
> would otherwise be exempt from federal permitting requirements.
>
>  However, it also gives us salvage authority, which is how a large part
> of our 18,000 specimen collection of modern skeletons has historically been
> built. Acting under the exemption you cited, we could only build
> collections by gift or by purchase from individuals or institutions who
> were permitted or otherwise authorized. But wouldn't this disqualify most
> institutions with collecting programs from the exemption as well? Are there
> that many major bird collections that are built solely through gift,
> purchase, or individual researchers with a scientific collecting permit?
>
>  I know I said I was going to shut up on the topic, so I'm gonna do that
> now.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 20, 2015, at 12:14 AM, Kevin Winker <kevin.winker at alaska.edu>
> wrote:
>
>   Federal regions vary, but in my experience the permitting personnel are
> often overtasked, so reasonable requests to reduce mutual burdens while
> upholding mutual obligations may be accommodated. We do try to have
> positive working relationships with these folks and with other agency
> personnel, and this has served us well and I hope they would on balance
> agree (though I do wish that permitting personnel did not have such a high
> turnover rate). If we keep focused on how best to legally collect and
> preserve specimens for science and education, making them appropriately
> useful and accessible, everyone wins. The less time we have to spend not
> meeting those goals...well, that's better, too. I'm not pointing at the
> present dialogue, but at the issue that began it. This thread has helped me
> better understand the variation that exists in our community.
>
>  Best, K.
>
> On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 7:12 PM, Brown, Matthew A <matthewbrown at utexas.edu
> > wrote:
>
>>  Haha, well if that's so, then color me corrected. I'd read this as
>> permit for acquisition or disposal, not to hold collections, but it does
>> say possess. I guess my first call tomorrow will be to the FWS permitting
>> office asking why they are insistent that a special purpose permit is
>> necessary for us to hold a few thousand migratory birds in our collections.
>>
>>  Matt
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Feb 19, 2015, at 9:29 PM, Kevin Winker <kevin.winker at alaska.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>>    Nope. Sorry. This is incorrect: "The only way for a museum collection
>> to legally hold non-eagle migratory bird specimens is with a special
>> purpose permit issued under § 21.27. " See 50 CFR 21.12(b). I suspect most
>> of the bigger and more active bird collections in the U.S. fall under this
>> clause. Those who aren't may wish to inquire whether they can. Here are the
>> details:
>>
>>
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.gpo.gov_fdsys_pkg_CFR-2D2010-2Dtitle50-2Dvol6_xml_CFR-2D2010-2Dtitle50-2Dvol6-2Dsec21-2D12.xml&d=AwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=cpjMg8M2jINOq3-L0XdYymOv1vnCzJhhgLRRUpFJAo4&s=JimEyZMXK5h5p9aMZmHJSMv_gNl2fmtMai9WX4efzOA&e= 
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.gpo.gov_fdsys_pkg_CFR-2D2010-2Dtitle50-2Dvol6_xml_CFR-2D2010-2Dtitle50-2Dvol6-2Dsec21-2D12.xml&d=AwMFAw&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=nNgs7Q4Cr1pnZXtJg54-yar0U5Zy4qKwMpod11uvphk&s=ouh9A5X1Fzko--AuIGNtlzeM9jGotX2CPZhLjRWB4Ws&e=>
>>
>> "(b)(1) State game departments, municipal game farms or parks, and public
>> museums, public zoological parks, accredited institutional members of the
>> American Association of Zoological Parks and Aquariums (AAZPA) and public
>> scientific or educational institutions may acquire by gift or purchase,
>> possess, transport, and by gift or sale dispose of lawfully acquired
>> migratory birds or their progeny, parts, nests, or eggs without a permit:
>> Provided, That such birds may be acquired only from persons authorized by
>> this paragraph or by a permit issued pursuant to this part to possess and
>> dispose of such birds, or from Federal or State game authorities by the
>> gift of seized, condemned, r sick or injured birds. Any such birds,
>> acquired without a permit, and any progeny therefrom may be disposed of
>> only to persons authorized by this paragraph to acquire such birds without
>> a permit. Any person exercising a privilege granted by this paragraph must
>> keep accurate records of such operations showing the species and number of
>> birds acquired, possessed, and disposed of; the names and addresses of the
>> persons from whom such birds were acquired or to whom such birds were
>> donated or sold; and the dates of such transactions. Records shall be
>> maintained or reproducible in English on a calendar year basis and shall be
>> retained for a period of five (5) years following the end of the calendar
>> year covered by the records."
>>
>>  With this, I agree: "One can't just cherry-pick parts of the laws that
>> seem to support your argument, you have to read the relevant laws and
>> regulations in their totality." And that's why I won't be expounding on
>> issues related to paleo collections. ;)
>>
>>  Best, K.
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 5:12 PM, Brown, Matthew A <
>> matthewbrown at utexas.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm just going to try this bird permit explanation one last time, and
>>> then for the sake of everybody's sanity and probable feelings of disgust,
>>> I'll give up.
>>>
>>> I know that § 21.23 is the scientific collecting permit. And it is only
>>> that. It does not authorize the holding of museum collections, in fact §
>>> 21.23(c)(1) disallows the keeping of specimens unless the scientific
>>> collector is issued a special purpose permit under § 21.27. The only way
>>> for a museum collection to legally hold non-eagle migratory bird specimens
>>> is with a special purpose permit issued under § 21.27. Those permit
>>> conditions mandate annual reporting. CFR 50, Chapter 1, Subchapter B, Part
>>> 13, Subpart D § 13.48 requires compliance by the museum with all
>>> conditions, including the annual reporting conditions. I have one of these
>>> special purpose permits in my hand, right now, looking at the section where
>>> it says it is issued under the authority of § 13 and § 21.27, and that
>>> annual reporting is required each year. Not just for five years, but each
>>> year that the permit is valid. That means that as long as an institution
>>> holds migratory birds, annual Federal reporting is required. One can't just
>>> cherry-pick parts of the laws that seem to support your argument, you have
>>> to read the relevant laws and regulations in their totality.
>>>
>>> And we haven't even gotten to migratory birds collected from Federal
>>> land yet. This is just DOI USFWS regs for migratory birds that aren't bald
>>> or golden eagles. Not for paleo or cultural items, not even for all natural
>>> history collections. Just non-eagle migratory birds. Onerous? Maybe. But it
>>> is also required by law, and what we signed up for when we took positions
>>> of responsibility in museums.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > On Feb 19, 2015, at 2:43 PM, Ellen Paul <ellen.paul at verizon.net>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > By the way, 21.27 is NOT "
>>> > "The special use permit required by § 21.27 for a museum collection"
>>> >
>>> > 21.27 is just what it says it is: Permits may be issued for special
>>> purpose activities related to migratory birds, their parts, nests, or eggs,
>>> which are otherwise outside the scope of the standard form permits of this
>>> part. A special purpose permit for migratory bird related activities not
>>> otherwise provided for in this part may be issued to an applicant who
>>> submits a written application containing the general information and
>>> certification required by part 13 and makes a sufficient showing of benefit
>>> to the migratory bird resource, important research reasons, reasons of
>>> human concern for individual birds, or other compelling justification.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Scientific collecting is covered by 21.23. Therefore, 21.27 is
>>> inapplicable.
>>> >
>>> > Ellen Paul
>>> > Executive Director
>>> > The Ornithological Council
>>> > Email:
>>> > ellen.paul at verizon.net
>>> >
>>> > "Providing Scientific Information about Birds
>>> > "
>>> >
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.nmnh.si.edu_BIRDNET&d=AwIF-g&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=mPwcdPJvBXjWEXqjb6PW7yMBMoOsdQrXAC2_7oZUNPw&s=UsNXAFaBAHIerQGjpFN5dtwwwlq7Lc2IXJc4OcwJ9KA&e=
>>> "
>>> >
>>> > On 2/19/15 3:28 PM, Brown, Matthew A wrote:
>>> >> REPOSITORY RECEIPT FOR COLLECTIONS
>>> >
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>>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>>> society. See https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.spnhc.org&d=AwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=cpjMg8M2jINOq3-L0XdYymOv1vnCzJhhgLRRUpFJAo4&s=LTygDBGohm1SgPF5u-RN_jZKCXDpVHEyctoE-bTEG8c&e= 
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>>> for membership information.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kevin Winker
>> University of Alaska Museum
>> 907 Yukon Drive
>> Fairbanks, AK 99775
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.spnhc.org&d=AwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=cpjMg8M2jINOq3-L0XdYymOv1vnCzJhhgLRRUpFJAo4&s=LTygDBGohm1SgPF5u-RN_jZKCXDpVHEyctoE-bTEG8c&e= 
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.spnhc.org&d=AwMFAw&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=k5oKkGwbuDYGjFAQXnBSfjV7z8J7jiADSez7lcUyVkM&s=jTyASPVluuSi0zIKrNE2b79yck3vx28YYpNuJfvV4Ls&e=>
>> for membership information.
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Kevin Winker
> University of Alaska Museum
> 907 Yukon Drive
> Fairbanks, AK 99775
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing listNhcoll-l at mailman.yale.eduhttp://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.spnhc.org&d=AwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=cpjMg8M2jINOq3-L0XdYymOv1vnCzJhhgLRRUpFJAo4&s=LTygDBGohm1SgPF5u-RN_jZKCXDpVHEyctoE-bTEG8c&e=  <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.spnhc.org&d=AwMD-g&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=khBK7yzCgCcaJzAAjpvVwsmwf6S0ASy103yRqX4QGEo&s=FIYuPllRCvoVbjJRkP9H3w-v9mfIOYV8aVDhgLwVYRE&e=> for membership information.
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>
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> http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.spnhc.org&d=AwIFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=cpjMg8M2jINOq3-L0XdYymOv1vnCzJhhgLRRUpFJAo4&s=LTygDBGohm1SgPF5u-RN_jZKCXDpVHEyctoE-bTEG8c&e=  for membership information.
>
>

-- 
Kevin Winker
University of Alaska Museum
907 Yukon Drive
Fairbanks, AK 99775
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