[Nhcoll-l] Information about fluid collections
rw at protectheritage.com
rw at protectheritage.com
Sun Aug 20 13:26:04 EDT 2017
Hi all,
Much of this discussion is beyond my area of expertise but I do want to point out some apparent misunderstandings about osmotic pressure.
Osmotic pressure is a product of water activity and is independent of what substances are causing the reduction in water activity, that is, whether ethanol, glycerol, potassium acetate or whatever. It would seem unwise to step through dilutions of ethanol then progressions of concentration to another preservative solely for the purposes of reducing osmotic pressure differences. The least osmotic pressure difference may be through direct transfer or some other path. I do want to recognize that there may be other reasons for wanting to go through a stepped procedure but we should not think that is the only, or the best, way to complete a transfer while avoiding osmotic pressure differences. Measurements of osmotic pressure differences between initial, final, and intermediate solutions will be required. For ethanol water solutions the data available in: Waller and Strang, Physical-chemical properties of preservative solutions I: Ethanol-water solutions. Collection Forum 12(2), 70-85, 1996.. I suspect for Kaiserling solution new measurements will be required. These can be easily made through freezing point depression measurements – an experiment many of us may have conducted in grade school.
Finally, I hope options other than Kaiserling solution will be identified and evaluated before a course of action is decided upon. Most notably, what are the current and anticipated uses of the collection, and how will collection utility for those purposes be affected by whatever preservative solution is chosen, from among several options considered.
Best,
Rob
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From: nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu [mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu] On Behalf Of Galpin Juliette
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 3:50 AM
To: John E Simmons <simmons.johne at gmail.com>; Dirk Neumann <dirk.neumann at zsm.mwn.de>
Cc: nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu; Baglione Gabrielle <gabrielle.baglione at lehavre.fr>; Cremiere Cédric <cedric.cremiere at lehavre.fr>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Information about fluid collections
Hi Everybody,
Thank you all for answering me so quickly !
Actually, the collection needs to be moved into safer fluids, for its own conservation (the fluids are evaporating), and because it will be moved to a new storage, that need to match new standards (no flammable or toxic products allowed, no evaporation of products, keeping the possibility of studying DNA, etc.). It is compulsory from our guardianship and funders of our new storage location. And Kaiserling seemed like a good idea, because it matches all these constraints. But I completely understand all the reservations you have regarding this operation and the harm it could do to specimens. That is why I need all the help possible to do this operation, keeping the risks to a minimum.
Simon, you assumed well, we have many marine organisms like fishes, shellfishes, cnidarians, sponges, ascidians, and so on... But we also have mammals, reptilians and amphibians for instance. Will Kaiserling be fine for these specimens too ? Do they need more precautions ?
How could I do to avoid having these bubbles due to changing in osmotic pressure ? I don’t know how to measure this osmotic pressure and watch out for its changeover… And we don’t know in which fluid the collections are currently preserved, neither the way they were fixed.
Could you help me set the better process to do this changeover with all precautions needed please ? For a changeover into ethanol, I’ve seen that the specimens must have been adapted to their new fluid by successive baths of ethanol at different concentrations. Do I have to follow the same process with Kaiserling ?
I will only use the preservative fluid, because all the specimens have already been fixed (I guess).
For the formula of the preservative solution, I’ve found that it is 900g Potassium acetate ; 6L Water ; 3,6L glycerol ; and some thymol. What are the good proportions for the mixture then ?! Thank for the recipe and the way to do it, but is it the same with thymol than with camphor ?
Again, thank you very much to all of you for helping me to implement this delicate operation.
Kind regards.
Juliette Galpin
Juliette,
You have asked a very interesting question. I agree with the responses from my colleagues concerning the caution about osmotic pressure and the kinds of specimens involved. Could you please tell us (1) what kinds of specimens are in the collection (marine invertebrates or vertebrates, fresh water or terrestrial invertebrates or vertebrates?) and (2) the reason why you are considering changing the preserving to Kaiserling? Kaiserling has been mostly used for anatomical specimens in an attempt to preserve the color of the tissues, and as far as I know it has not been used on a very wide variety of natural history specimens.
Sincerely,
John
John E. Simmons
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and
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Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
Penn State University
University Park, Pennsylvania
and
Instructor, Museum Studies
School of Library and Information Science
Kent State University
On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 9:09 AM, Dirk Neumann < <mailto:dirk.neumann at zsm.mwn.de> dirk.neumann at zsm.mwn.de> wrote:
Dear Simon,
dear Galpin,
the baseline for changing the holding fluid is: Do not change, unless there is a good reason to do so.
>From a collection care point of view, fire protection or toxicity problems - for me - would not be a proper reason if in the long run the new condition would harm the integrity of the specimen.
Also, because of the acidity, I would refrain of changing the fluid unless there is a real good reason to do so (maybe part of the collection, or specific specimens from a lot containing several specimens for a specific research purpose).
Btw:
Mahoney (1973) Laboratory Techniques in Zoology gives the following recipes (Pick-Judah formula)
(Simon, please comment if this wouldn't make sense)
KI (fixative)
Potassium acetate 42.5g
Potassium nitrate 22.5g
Distilled water 1.6 L
40% formalin solution 400ml (full strength)
Salt are dissolved in hot water, formalin is added to the cooled solution
KII (colour reviver)
EtOH 96 %
KIII (perservative)
Sodium acetate 36.0g
Distilled water 120.0ml
Camphor 5.0ml (4% EtOH solution)
Glycerol 72ml
(The solution is made by adding the ingredients in the order given. At first, the camphor is thrown out of solution but redissolves on allowing the solution to stand)
All the best
Dirk
Am 16.08.2017 um 13:19 schrieb Simon Moore:
Hi Juliette,
No problem about getting in touch.
You mention re-packing a collection. Is this collection to be moved or stored or did you mean that is needs to be moved into safer fluids? The latter is indicative of a move for museums with such collections to be rid of fluids that are flammable and/or toxic.
There are various concerns about this as the condition of the specimens is what should be the real issue here. As you are based at LeHavre I am assuming that you should have many marine organisms in fluids? For many such organisms a move to Kaiserling III will be fine but you have to bear in mind that the osmotic pressure of KIII is considerably different to that of ethanol, even formalin. For delicate organisms (medusae, siphonophores) this changeover has to be carried out very carefully or you will end up with air bubbles inside them that appear when binary/tertiary azeotropes are used - miscible fluids of different specific gravities. You also need to bear in mind that Kaiserling’s technique was devised mainly for anatomy specimens as the preservative is good for maintaining the colour of blood and organs that filter it (liver, kidney). I have successfully colour-preserved marine organisms that were freshly collected and using the 3 stage technique - fixation, colour enhancement and preservation.
All of this may sound rather negative but I am just warning you to be careful with the changeover. I would also post the enquiry onto the conservation forum: <mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu> nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu to see if anyone else is doing this and to see if they have any concerns.
The formula for the Kaiserling method is: Kaiserling I (fixative): 40% formaldehyde (400) [tlv 3], potassium acetate (50 g), potassium nitrate (30 g), distilled water (1000).
Kaiserling II (enhancer/colour restorer): 80-90% ethanol. Use until colour returns if it has chemically ‘faded’ in fixative – may be minutes for smaller specimens. Some like to add some potassium hydrosulphite if being stored for more than a few days.
Kaiserling III (preservative): Potassium acetate (200g), glycerol (300), distilled water (900).
With all good wishes, Simon.
Simon Moore MIScT, RSci, FLS, ACR
Conservator of Natural Sciences and Cutlery Historian,
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On 16 Aug 2017, at 10:37, Galpin Juliette < <mailto:juliette.galpin at lehavre.fr> juliette.galpin at lehavre.fr> wrote:
Hello,
My name is Juliette Galpin and I’m in charge of all the scientific collection in the Natural History Museum of Le Havre, in France.
I’m following the advice of Judith White, in Natural History Museum, who told me to get in touch with you. Hope you won’t mind.
We have a collection which is maintained in fluids, and we want to repack it. The specimens are currently in liquid as Alcool, Ethanol and a bit of Formol. And we wish to recondition it in Kaiserling III, which is a mixture of glycerin and acetate of potassium without any formol. I don’t know if you know, or use, this liquid.
I’ve found some of your papers about collections in fluids, but there is few literature about Kaiserling precisely, and I don’t really know how to create this liquid correctly.
Do you know this product, or someone who might know and use it, or maybe know the process to adapt the specimens to their new conservation fluid ?
Thank you very much for your answer and all the help you can provide me,
Regards.
Juliette Galpin
<image001.jpg>
Juliette GALPIN
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