[Nhcoll-l] Desktop thermal printers?
Bentley, Andrew Charles
abentley at ku.edu
Mon Apr 13 11:22:28 EDT 2026
Hi Rob
Yes, agreed on all fronts.
Andy
A : A : A :
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Andy Bentley
Ichthyology Collection Manager
University of Kansas
Biodiversity Institute
Dyche Hall
1345 Jayhawk Boulevard
Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561
USA
Tel: (785) 864-3863<tel:%28785%29%20864-3863>
Fax: (785) 864-5335<tel:%28785%29%20864-5335>
Email: abentley at ku.edu<mailto:abentley at ku.edu>
ORCID: https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3093-1258
http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu<http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu/>
A : A : A :
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________________________________
From: Robert Waller <rw at protectheritage.com>
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2026 10:20 AM
To: Bentley, Andrew Charles <abentley at ku.edu>; Gali Beiner <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Desktop thermal printers?
Hi Andy,
You are right that accelerated aging tests can be misleading. I am not sure that is what would be wanted. Just having casually read the messages though, I thought that some guidance on specification of papers and inks might be useful. For example, where print simply floated off the paper when immersed, I might guess that could be a result of using a clay coated paper. That is just a guess as I do not have expertise in either printers or papers. It just seemed that we might clarify, even simplify, our understandings by communicating with the people who have expertise in that. IPI would seem a good place to start.
Perhaps I should have explained that to start.
Best,
Rob
________________________________
From: Bentley, Andrew Charles <abentley at ku.edu>
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2026 10:44 AM
To: Gali Beiner <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>; Robert Waller <rw at protectheritage.com>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Desktop thermal printers?
Hi all
I think the rub (pun intended) with accelerated aging tests is that they can over-express real-world scenarios. A thermal transfer printer label (or any label for that matter) inserted into a glass jar, is going to be subject to limited abrasion and, as such, any accelerated aging test that uses physical abrasion as its main mechanism of aging is not going to be an accurate representation of real word effects in my opinion. Maybe placing a jar of alcohol with specimen and label in the equivalent of a rock tumbler would more closely approximate a real-world scenario.
Andy
A : A : A :
}<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<)))_°>
V V V
Andy Bentley
Ichthyology Collection Manager
University of Kansas
Biodiversity Institute
Dyche Hall
1345 Jayhawk Boulevard
Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561
USA
Tel: (785) 864-3863<tel:%28785%29%20864-3863>
Fax: (785) 864-5335<tel:%28785%29%20864-5335>
Email: abentley at ku.edu<mailto:abentley at ku.edu>
ORCID: https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3093-1258
http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu<http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu/>
A : A : A :
}<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<)))_°>
V V V
________________________________
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of Gali Beiner <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>
Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2026 1:06 AM
To: Robert Waller <rw at protectheritage.com>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Desktop thermal printers?
Hi Rob and all,
I'm not familiar with task groups in SPNHC, so somebody who already works with one will have to explain to me how that works, but generally speaking - the main problem here is formulating the right kind of question to answer in a scientific research. In fact, it crosses my mind that if anybody here has a contact within the Image Permanence Institute, I'd be happy to get in touch (IPI, according to its own vision, is "dedicated to supporting the preservation of cultural heritage collections in libraries, archives, and museums around the world").
Possibly the study question should be about finding the most permanent printer-ink-substrate combo (for ethanol?) in each category (laser, inkjet, thermal transfer), and then comparing categories. This would involve thinking about the best ways to test permanence for labels in fluids - for example, in my own published paper I presented a form of accelerated aging as a testing method. What would be the best way for testing, other than waiting 50-100 years? Maybe discussing this with people at the Image Permanence Institute could help.
Gali
On Fri, Apr 10, 2026 at 5:18 PM Robert Waller <rw at protectheritage.com<mailto:rw at protectheritage.com>> wrote:
Hi Gali,
Your suggestion "to understand the "recipe" as much as possible" seems a very good idea.
If you or someone else decides to initiate a task group within SPNHC to take that on, I suggest you reach out to archives and paper conservators through their discussion groups as they may already have useful information available. Perhaps the subject could be suggested as a good research project for a conservation student. That is, a compilation of information combined with some experimentation for validation.
Rob
________________________________
From: Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>> on behalf of Gali Beiner <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il<mailto:gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>>
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2026 4:17 PM
To: Ian Engelbrecht <ianicus.za at gmail.com<mailto:ianicus.za at gmail.com>>
Cc: NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu<mailto:nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Nhcoll-l] Desktop thermal printers?
Redesigning is already happening: new tech pops in, for example the thermal transfer printers are new compared to inkjets, and new substrates are also being developed.
One way to deal with inevitable change is to understand the "recipe" as much as possible and seek out the "cleaner" products - as in the case of "OBA free, acid free, lignin free" etc paper or understanding which types of toners are likely to be more permanent. Understanding the technology as much as possible and testing what we can may help narrow down choices and set clearer standards. The other way is to remain out of it and use handwritten labels, but it seems that all of us regard this option mostly as a ship that has sailed: too hard to get the workforce to do it.
Gali
[https://docs.google.com/a/mail.huji.ac.il/uc?id=0B5B3I3QnN7dsSzNkbGlLNDNGWG8&export=download]Gali Beiner (ACR)
Conservator, Palaeontology Lab
National Natural History Collections
The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
Berman Building, Edmond J. Safra campus, Givat Ram
Jerusalem 91904, Israel
Fax. 972-2-6585785
gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il<mailto:gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>
https://nnhc.huji.ac.il/?lang=en
בתאריך יום ה׳, 9 באפר׳ 2026, 21:49, מאת Ian Engelbrecht <ianicus.za at gmail.com<mailto:ianicus.za at gmail.com>>:
Plus the fact that things change over time. HP printer - toner - paper combination might work now, but will it still 30 years from now when they’ve redesigned one or three of those components?
Ian
On Thu, 09 Apr 2026 at 18:20, Gali Beiner <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il<mailto:gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>> wrote:
Doug is pointing out the heart of the problem - the variety of printing combinations which makes comparisons difficult.
In fact, the variations in the way printer-ink-subsrate (paper or other) combinations work is the main reason why manufacturers recommend using their own brand for all three parts of the combo. In other words, the manufacturers say HP printers are supposed to yield better, more permanent results with original HP toners and HP specialized paper. The same goes for Canon, Epson or any other brand. Testing according to conservation parameters can work with that - or at least look very carefully into what, exactly is chosen for use (eg paper - OBA free, lignin free etc etc).
The way things stand now - with endless possible variations and combinations - basically means it is up to us to try and set the criteria of choice and monitor whether that works. Not easy, but possibly we can try.
Gali
[https://docs.google.com/a/mail.huji.ac.il/uc?id=0B5B3I3QnN7dsSzNkbGlLNDNGWG8&export=download]Gali Beiner (ACR)
Conservator, Palaeontology Lab
National Natural History Collections
The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
Berman Building, Edmond J. Safra campus, Givat Ram
Jerusalem 91904, Israel
Fax. 972-2-6585785
gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il<mailto:gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>
https://nnhc.huji.ac.il/?lang=en
בתאריך יום ה׳, 9 באפר׳ 2026, 18:46, מאת Douglas Yanega <dyanega at gmail.com<mailto:dyanega at gmail.com>>:
On 4/8/26 11:38 PM, Gali Beiner wrote:
Other than that, I think that maybe we could use this forum to up the level of testing a bit - after all we have a pool of collection professionals here, all with the same problem to solve re:labels for wet collections (mainly alcohol but also other). Why shouldn't we gather ourselves into a group of say 5 to 10 people in different collections and agree on some sort of protocol for different labels in each collection (or maybe sets of different labels to be tested in all collections, we could consider the details) - and have this followed both in the short and long terms? That would be more interesting than any individual test. Dear readers in this forum, how does this sound to you?
Compilation of different people's experiences have been done here and elsewhere with some regularity, and one thing that is a universal impediment to generating a coherent picture is the variability of the medium that is being printed on. Comparisons of different printers are nearly meaningless if the "tests" are on different paper stock.
The most dramatic example I can offer is one from personal experience: back in 1990, we obtained a Laserjet, a fairly new technology at that time, and printed thousands of labels for both dry and ethanol specimens. The first several months everything worked flawlessly, and to this day, almost 40 years on, those original labels are perfectly fine, even the ones stored in ethanol. Then one day we ran out of the existing stock of paper, bought a new ream, and loaded it into the printer without changing anything else. The lettering on those labels chipped, flaked, and rubbed off the dry labels, and when we tried to put them into ethanol, the letters floated off. No alteration of settings was involved, and nothing we did made the labels viable. That is, until we checked the packaging on the original ream; we found it was not the exact same thing that we had switched to, so we bought something IDENTICAL, and the resulting labels were just fine again. The problem had literally nothing to do with the printer, and everything to do with the paper.
Again, any "test" that does not control for the medium will not be a fair and objective test of the merits of a printer.
We presently use an HP Laser printer, and yes, we have had to try different types of paper to find paper stocks that work well with this printer. Not all do. Even worse, when we use "replacement" toner cartridges (not the official HP brand), sometimes but not always, the printing is slightly flaky and easily abraded. That means there are at least THREE parameters that need to be controlled: the printer, the medium, and the toner. Variation in any one of those three can lead to variation in the quality of the results. This makes objective assessment and testing very difficult, and ultimately it's just a litany of anecdotes.
Peace,
--
Doug Yanega Dept. of Entomology Entomology Research Museum
Univ. of California, Riverside, CA 92521-0314 phone: 951-827-4315
FaceBook: Doug Yanega (disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's)
https://faculty.ucr.edu/~heraty/yanega.html
"There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness
is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82
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NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
society. See http://www.spnhc.org<http://www.spnhc.org/> for membership information.
Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
--
[https://docs.google.com/a/mail.huji.ac.il/uc?id=0B5B3I3QnN7dsSzNkbGlLNDNGWG8&export=download]Gali Beiner (ACR)
Conservator, Palaeontology Lab
National Natural History Collections
The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
Berman Building, Edmond J. Safra campus, Givat Ram
Jerusalem 91904, Israel
Fax. 972-2-6585785
gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il<mailto:gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>
https://nnhc.huji.ac.il/?lang=en
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