[Nhcoll-l] [EXTERN] Re: Desktop thermal printers?
Kendrick Fowler
kendrickorion at gmail.com
Tue Apr 14 11:54:14 EDT 2026
Along with running labels through a tumbler or shaker of some kind, I think
that exposing labels to light and heat (along the lines of Andy's window
ledge test) could be useful and interesting for accelerated aging
experiments.
For what it's worth, I have been running a not-very-scientific test similar
to Andy's with labels made using my lab's inkjet printer, albeit for much
less time; the vials have been sitting in my window for ~5 years. So far,
the labels have remained perfectly readable, and the text printed by the
inkjet appears to have held up equally as well as text handwritten on the
labels using a black Pigma Micron pen (though both the inkjet printed and
the handwritten text appear to have faded slightly). The labels were
printed on Enduro Xerographic 100% cotton paper using an Epson ET-4750
EcoTank printer filled with Epson T5021 black ink, and the Micron pen was
Sakura stock # XSDK005-49.
Kendrick
*Kendrick Fowler*, *Entomology Lab Manager*
Hawthorne Valley Farmscape Ecology Program | hvfarmscape.org
+1 (518) 672-7994 (office) | +1 (267) 377-7567 (cell)
*Follow us** on Facebook
<https://www.facebook.com/Farmscape-Ecology-Program-154393294745947/> or
subscribe to our **Progress of the Seasons Journal
<https://progressoftheseasons.wordpress.com/> for weekly **photoessays
on **Columbia
County's natural **wonders**.*
On Tue, Apr 14, 2026 at 12:24 AM Gali Beiner <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>
wrote:
> Just adding my own angle - the tests described in my publication involved
> tubes being shaked for hours in a laboratory shaker. Actually sounds to me
> less rough, motion-wise, than a washing machine... I did add glass spheres
> (no sharp angles) to the mix, though.
>
> However, the comments re: problems of accelerated aging are, of course,
> valid. They are valid also for accelerated aging tests in fields other than
> fluid collection labels. One way I dealt with that was shortening test
> times from 1 month (as pee the "classic" Oddy Test) to 48 hours.
>
> In any case, I consider all of the comments here very valuable to shsping
> future testing. I have sent an email to a person at the IPI (thanks for the
> contact, Rob! Fabian, I'll follow yours, too!). If they reply, I'd be happy
> to gather a think-tank team to discuss the subject with them.
>
> Gali
>
> Gali Beiner (ACR)
> Conservator, Palaeontology Lab
> National Natural History Collections
> The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
> Berman Building, Edmond J. Safra campus, Givat Ram
> Jerusalem 91904, Israel
> Fax. 972-2-6585785
> *gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>*
>
> *https://nnhc.huji.ac.il/?lang=en <https://nnhc.huji.ac.il/?lang=en>*
>
> בתאריך יום ג׳, 14 באפר׳ 2026, 00:39, מאת Dirk Neumann <
> d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> before we introduced our gill tags for a major field survey, I tagged
>> small fish (2cm) with approx. 1cm gill tags, but them in PE-bottles with
>> formalin, and put them into a washing machine running the full cold wash
>> programme (no heat, but 'bumpy road' conditions.
>>
>> Think that matches Andy's idea of a rock tumbler quite well.
>>
>> The HP 600 ink jet labels on 100 g/m2 transparent paper preformed best
>> (as already said in this thread: ink jet printing boils the ink and shoots
>> it into the paper). Gill tags also stayed in place (second level of
>> testing).
>>
>> We had perfect performance even on very bumpy off-road tracks in central
>> Africa.
>>
>> Just an idea ...
>>
>> With best wishes
>> Dirk
>>
>>
>> Am 13.04.2026 um 17:20 schrieb Robert Waller:
>>
>> Hi Andy,
>> You are right that accelerated aging tests can be misleading. I am not
>> sure that is what would be wanted. Just having casually read the messages
>> though, I thought that some guidance on specification of papers and inks
>> might be useful. For example, where print simply floated off the paper when
>> immersed, I might guess that could be a result of using a clay coated
>> paper. That is just a guess as I do not have expertise in either printers
>> or papers. It just seemed that we might clarify, even simplify, our
>> understandings by communicating with the people who have expertise in that.
>> IPI would seem a good place to start.
>> Perhaps I should have explained that to start.
>> Best,
>> Rob
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Bentley, Andrew Charles <abentley at ku.edu> <abentley at ku.edu>
>> *Sent:* Monday, April 13, 2026 10:44 AM
>> *To:* Gali Beiner <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>
>> <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>; Robert Waller <rw at protectheritage.com>
>> <rw at protectheritage.com>
>> *Cc:* NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu> <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Nhcoll-l] Desktop thermal printers?
>>
>> Hi all
>>
>> I think the rub (pun intended) with accelerated aging tests is that they
>> can over-express real-world scenarios. A thermal transfer printer label
>> (or any label for that matter) inserted into a glass jar, is going to be
>> subject to limited abrasion and, as such, any accelerated aging test that
>> uses physical abrasion as its main mechanism of aging is not going to be an
>> accurate representation of real word effects in my opinion. Maybe placing
>> a jar of alcohol with specimen and label in the equivalent of a rock
>> tumbler would more closely approximate a real-world scenario.
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> A : A : A :
>> }<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<)))_°>
>> V V V
>> Andy Bentley
>> Ichthyology Collection Manager
>> University of Kansas
>> Biodiversity Institute
>>
>>
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1345+Jayhawk+Boulevard+%0D%0A+Lawrence,+KS,+66045-7561+%0D%0A+USA?entry=gmail&source=g>Dyche
>> Hall
>>
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1345+Jayhawk+Boulevard+%0D%0A+Lawrence,+KS,+66045-7561+%0D%0A+USA?entry=gmail&source=g>*1345
>> Jayhawk Boulevard
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1345+Jayhawk+Boulevard+%0D%0A+Lawrence,+KS,+66045-7561+%0D%0A+USA?entry=gmail&source=g>*
>> *Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1345+Jayhawk+Boulevard+%0D%0A+Lawrence,+KS,+66045-7561+%0D%0A+USA?entry=gmail&source=g>*
>> *USA
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1345+Jayhawk+Boulevard+%0D%0A+Lawrence,+KS,+66045-7561+%0D%0A+USA?entry=gmail&source=g>*
>>
>> Tel: *(785) 864-3863* <%28785%29%20864-3863>
>> Fax: *(785) 864-5335* <%28785%29%20864-5335>
>> Email: *abentley at ku.edu* <abentley at ku.edu>
>>
>> ORCID: *https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3093-1258*
>> <https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3093-1258>
>>
>> *http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu*
>> <http://ichthyology.biodiversity.ku.edu/>
>>
>> A : A : A :
>> }<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<)))_°>
>> V V V
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu>
>> <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of Gali Beiner
>> <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il> <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, April 12, 2026 1:06 AM
>> *To:* Robert Waller <rw at protectheritage.com> <rw at protectheritage.com>
>> *Cc:* NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu> <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Nhcoll-l] Desktop thermal printers?
>>
>> Hi Rob and all,
>>
>> I'm not familiar with task groups in SPNHC, so somebody who already works
>> with one will have to explain to me how that works, but generally speaking
>> - the main problem here is formulating the right kind of question to answer
>> in a scientific research. In fact, it crosses my mind that if anybody here
>> has a contact within the Image Permanence Institute, I'd be happy to get in
>> touch (IPI, according to its own vision, is "dedicated to supporting the
>> preservation of cultural heritage collections in libraries, archives, and
>> museums around the world").
>>
>> Possibly the study question should be about finding the most permanent
>> printer-ink-substrate combo (for ethanol?) in each category (laser, inkjet,
>> thermal transfer), and then comparing categories. This would involve
>> thinking about *the best ways to test permanence for labels in fluids* -
>> for example, in my own published paper I presented a form of accelerated
>> aging as a testing method. What would be the best way for testing, other
>> than waiting 50-100 years? Maybe discussing this with people at the Image
>> Permanence Institute could help.
>>
>> Gali
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 10, 2026 at 5:18 PM Robert Waller <rw at protectheritage.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Gali,
>> Your suggestion "to understand the "recipe" as much as possible" seems a
>> very good idea.
>> If you or someone else decides to initiate a task group within SPNHC to
>> take that on, I suggest you reach out to archives and paper conservators
>> through their discussion groups as they may already have useful information
>> available. Perhaps the subject could be suggested as a good research
>> project for a conservation student. That is, a compilation of information
>> combined with some experimentation for validation.
>> Rob
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Nhcoll-l <nhcoll-l-bounces at mailman.yale.edu> on behalf of Gali
>> Beiner <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 09, 2026 4:17 PM
>> *To:* Ian Engelbrecht <ianicus.za at gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* NHCOLL-new <nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Nhcoll-l] Desktop thermal printers?
>>
>> Redesigning is already happening: new tech pops in, for example the
>> thermal transfer printers are new compared to inkjets, and new substrates
>> are also being developed.
>>
>> One way to deal with inevitable change is to understand the "recipe" as
>> much as possible and seek out the "cleaner" products - as in the case of
>> "OBA free, acid free, lignin free" etc paper or understanding which types
>> of toners are likely to be more permanent. Understanding the technology as
>> much as possible and testing what we can may help narrow down choices and
>> set clearer standards. The other way is to remain out of it and use
>> handwritten labels, but it seems that all of us regard this option mostly
>> as a ship that has sailed: too hard to get the workforce to do it.
>>
>> Gali
>>
>> Gali Beiner (ACR)
>> Conservator, Palaeontology Lab
>> National Natural History Collections
>> The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
>> Berman Building, Edmond J. Safra campus, Givat Ram
>> Jerusalem 91904, Israel
>> Fax. 972-2-6585785
>> *gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il* <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>
>> *https://nnhc.huji.ac.il/?lang=en* <https://nnhc.huji.ac.il/?lang=en>
>>
>> בתאריך יום ה׳, 9 באפר׳ 2026, 21:49, מאת Ian Engelbrecht <
>> ianicus.za at gmail.com>:
>>
>> Plus the fact that things change over time. HP printer - toner - paper
>> combination might work now, but will it still 30 years from now when
>> they’ve redesigned one or three of those components?
>>
>> Ian
>>
>> On Thu, 09 Apr 2026 at 18:20, Gali Beiner <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Doug is pointing out the heart of the problem - the variety of printing
>> combinations which makes comparisons difficult.
>>
>> In fact, the variations in the way printer-ink-subsrate (paper or other)
>> combinations work is the main reason why manufacturers recommend using
>> their own brand for all three parts of the combo. In other words, the
>> manufacturers say HP printers are supposed to yield better, more permanent
>> results with original HP toners and HP specialized paper. The same goes for
>> Canon, Epson or any other brand. Testing according to conservation
>> parameters can work with that - or at least look very carefully into what,
>> exactly is chosen for use (eg paper - OBA free, lignin free etc etc).
>>
>> The way things stand now - with endless possible variations and
>> combinations - basically means it is up to us to try and set the criteria
>> of choice and monitor whether that works. Not easy, but possibly we can
>> try.
>>
>> Gali
>>
>>
>>
>> Gali Beiner (ACR)
>> Conservator, Palaeontology Lab
>> National Natural History Collections
>> The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
>> Berman Building, Edmond J. Safra campus, Givat Ram
>> Jerusalem 91904, Israel
>> Fax. 972-2-6585785
>> *gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il* <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>
>> *https://nnhc.huji.ac.il/?lang=en* <https://nnhc.huji.ac.il/?lang=en>
>>
>> בתאריך יום ה׳, 9 באפר׳ 2026, 18:46, מאת Douglas Yanega <
>> dyanega at gmail.com>:
>>
>> On 4/8/26 11:38 PM, Gali Beiner wrote:
>>
>> Other than that, I think that maybe we could use this forum to up the
>> level of testing a bit - after all we have a pool of collection
>> professionals here, all with the same problem to solve re:labels for wet
>> collections (mainly alcohol but also other). Why shouldn't we gather
>> ourselves into a group of say 5 to 10 people in different collections and
>> agree on some sort of protocol for different labels in each collection (or
>> maybe sets of different labels to be tested in all collections, we could
>> consider the details) - and have this followed both in the short and long
>> terms? That would be more interesting than any individual test. Dear
>> readers in this forum, how does this sound to you?
>>
>> Compilation of different people's experiences have been done here and
>> elsewhere with some regularity, and one thing that is a universal
>> impediment to generating a coherent picture is the variability of the
>> medium that is being printed on. Comparisons of different printers are
>> nearly meaningless if the "tests" are on different paper stock.
>>
>> The most dramatic example I can offer is one from personal experience:
>> back in 1990, we obtained a Laserjet, a fairly new technology at that time,
>> and printed thousands of labels for both dry and ethanol specimens. The
>> first several months everything worked flawlessly, and to this day, almost
>> 40 years on, those original labels are perfectly fine, even the ones stored
>> in ethanol. Then one day we ran out of the existing stock of paper, bought
>> a new ream, and loaded it into the printer without changing anything else.
>> The lettering on those labels chipped, flaked, and rubbed off the dry
>> labels, and when we tried to put them into ethanol, the letters floated
>> off. No alteration of settings was involved, and nothing we did made the
>> labels viable. That is, until we checked the packaging on the original
>> ream; we found it was not the exact same thing that we had switched to, so
>> we bought something IDENTICAL, and the resulting labels were just fine
>> again. The problem had literally nothing to do with the printer, and
>> everything to do with the paper.
>>
>> Again, any "test" that does not control for the medium will not be a fair
>> and objective test of the merits of a printer.
>>
>> We presently use an HP Laser printer, and yes, we have had to try
>> different types of paper to find paper stocks that work well with this
>> printer. Not all do. Even worse, when we use "replacement" toner cartridges
>> (not the official HP brand), sometimes *but not always*, the printing is
>> slightly flaky and easily abraded. That means there are at least THREE
>> parameters that need to be controlled: the printer, the medium, and the
>> toner. Variation in any one of those three can lead to variation in the
>> quality of the results. This makes objective assessment and testing
>> *very* difficult, and ultimately it's just a litany of anecdotes.
>>
>> Peace,
>>
>> --
>> Doug Yanega Dept. of Entomology Entomology Research Museum
>> Univ. of California, Riverside, CA 92521-0314 phone: 951-827-4315
>> FaceBook: Doug Yanega (disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's)
>> https://faculty.ucr.edu/~heraty/yanega.html
>> "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness
>> is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Gali Beiner (ACR)
>> Conservator, Palaeontology Lab
>> National Natural History Collections
>> The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
>> Berman Building, Edmond J. Safra campus, Givat Ram
>> Jerusalem 91904, Israel
>> Fax. 972-2-6585785
>> *gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il* <gali.beiner at mail.huji.ac.il>
>> *https://nnhc.huji.ac.il/?lang=en* <https://nnhc.huji.ac.il/?lang=en>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing listNhcoll-l at mailman.yale.eduhttps://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> ******
>>
>>
>>
>> *Dirk Neumann*
>>
>> Collection Manager, Hamburg
>>
>>
>>
>> Postal address:
>>
>> *Museum of Nature Hamburg*
>> Leibniz Institute for the Analysis
>>
>> of Biodiversity Change
>>
>> Dirk Neumann
>>
>> Martin-Luther-King-Platz 3
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Martin-Luther-King-Platz+3+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+20146+%0D%0A+Hamburg?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>
>> 20146
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Martin-Luther-King-Platz+3+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+20146+%0D%0A+Hamburg?entry=gmail&source=g>
>> Hamburg
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Martin-Luther-King-Platz+3+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+20146+%0D%0A+Hamburg?entry=gmail&source=g>
>> +49 40 238 317 – 628
>>
>> *d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de <d.neumann at leibniz-lib.de>*
>>
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Martin-Luther-King-Platz+3+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+20146+%0D%0A+Hamburg?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Martin-Luther-King-Platz+3+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+20146+%0D%0A+Hamburg?entry=gmail&source=g>
>> www.leibniz-lib.de
>>
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Martin-Luther-King-Platz+3+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+20146+%0D%0A+Hamburg?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversitätswandels
>> Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Adenauerallee+127,+53113+Bonn,+Germany?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>
>> Stiftung des öffentlichen Rechts;
>> Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian
>> Grüter (Kaufm. Geschäftsführer)
>> Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Adenauerallee+160?entry=gmail&source=g>
>> in Bonn
>> Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael Wappelhorst
>>
>>
>> --
>> Stiftung Leibniz-Institut zur Analyse des Biodiversitätswandels
>> Postanschrift: Adenauerallee 127, 53113 Bonn, Germany
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Adenauerallee+127,+53113+Bonn,+Germany?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>
>> Stiftung des öffentlichen Rechts;
>> Generaldirektion: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Misof (Generaldirektor), Adrian
>> Grüter (Kaufm. Geschäftsführer)
>> Sitz der Stiftung: Adenauerallee 160
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Adenauerallee+160?entry=gmail&source=g>
>> in Bonn
>> Vorsitzender des Stiftungsrates: Dr. Michael H. Wappelhorst
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
>> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
>> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> https://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See http://www.spnhc.org for membership information.
> Advertising on NH-COLL-L is inappropriate.
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20260414/923b8651/attachment.html>
More information about the Nhcoll-l
mailing list