[NHCOLL-L:4293] re: Nalgene paper and Tyvek
John E Simmons
simmons.johne at gmail.com
Wed Apr 8 19:01:21 EDT 2009
In essence, polyethylene and polyester are the same thing, but both are
manufactured in a variety of formulations, some of which include UV
blockers. Low density polyethylene (LDPE) is used to make films, high
density polyethylene (HDPE) is used to make containers. PET is a form of
polyethylene tereppthalte (PET or PETE) used to make synthetic fibers and
bottles for soft drinks and water. What this means is that a company making
a synthetic paper could tell you, generally, that their product is
"spunbonded polyethylene" or "spunbonded polyester" and it could mean the
same product, or different products. Unless the manufacturer is willing to
tell you what the fomulation is, you are not going to know just based on the
general names. Given Andy's trial of exposing the labels to sunlight, it is
a fairly safe bet that the form of polyester or polyethylene used by the
label manufacturer includes a UV blocker of some sort.
Although Tyvek is a trade name, I don't believe that it refers to only one
formulation of polyethyelene, either, but rather is a term used for several
forms of the plastic.
--John
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Steve Halford <halford at sfu.ca> wrote:
> From Merck (and Scott Williams, CCPTP 1988) Polyethylene is a simple chain
>
> CH2-CH2-CH2
>
> While Polyester (Polyethylene terephthalate) alternates cabons,
> oxygens and benzenes in the backbone with both hydrogens and oxygens
> as side chains
>
> -O-C-B-CO-O-CH2-CH2-O- (B=Benzene)
>
> Does that help anybody?
>
> Steve.
>
> On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 6:53 AM, Bentley, Andrew Charles <abentley at ku.edu>
> wrote:
> > Simon
> >
> >
> >
> > I have been told by reliable conservator folks that polyester is much
> more
> > stable than polyethylene (tyvek) in terms of its UV stability and
> > interaction with chemicals. Unfortunately I do not know the exact
> > differences in makeup of the two materials – maybe someone can chime in?
> > The only reason why Alpha Systems is being cagey is because they want to
> > maintain their monopoly on the market for this stuff…
> >
> >
> >
> > Andy
> >
> > A : A : A :
> > }<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<(((_°>
> > V V V
> > Andy Bentley
> > Ichthyology Collection Manager/Specify Usability Lead
> > University of Kansas
> > Natural History Museum & Biodiversity Research Center
> > Dyche Hall
> > 1345 Jayhawk Boulevard
> > Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561
> > USA
> >
> > Tel: (785) 864-3863
> > Fax: (785) 864-5335
> > Email: ABentley at ku.edu
> >
> > A : A : A :
> > }<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<(((_°>
> > V V V
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: owner-nhcoll-l at lists.yale.edu [mailto:
> owner-nhcoll-l at lists.yale.edu]
> > On Behalf Of Moore, Simon
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 7:00 AM
> > To: Bentley, Andrew Charles; simmons.johne at gmail.com
> > Cc: halford at sfu.ca; amsnyder at unm.edu; NHCOLL-L at lists.yale.edu
> > Subject: [NHCOLL-L:4290] re: Nalgene paper and Tyvek
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks Andy,
> >
> >
> >
> > I am now a bit confused with the poly's! If Alpha systems are being
> cagey
> > about the Tyvek that they use for the hot printing, is this a different
> > formulation to that which is UV-degradable?
> >
> >
> >
> > I realise Andy, that your p-ester labels are still intact after 5 (?)
> years
> > of UV-abuse and fish oil but is this formulation somehow different to
> that
> > of the flakey map incident which seems to be a poly-ethylene/alkene?
> >
> >
> >
> > With all good wishes,
> > Simon Moore, MIScT, FLS, ACR,
> > Senior Conservator of Natural Sciences.
> > Hampshire County Council
> > Recreation & Heritage Department,
> > Museums & Archives Service,
> > Chilcomb House, Chilcomb Lane,
> > Winchester SO23 8RD. UK.
> > Internal 8 327 6737
> > 01962 826737
> > http://www.hants.gov.uk/museum/biology
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: Bentley, Andrew Charles [mailto:abentley at ku.edu]
> > Sent: 06 April 2009 17:53
> > To: simmons.johne at gmail.com; Moore, Simon
> > Cc: halford at sfu.ca; amsnyder at unm.edu; NHCOLL-L at lists.yale.edu
> > Subject: RE: [NHCOLL-L:4287] re: Nalgene paper and Tyvek
> >
> > Hi all
> >
> >
> >
> > Just to add to this discussion – the material from Alpha Systems is spun
> > bound POLYESTER and not polyethylene – not sure if they are the same
> thing
> > or similar but thought I would clarify. As John mentioned, Alpha Systems
> is
> > naturally very cagey about the exact makeup of this material so that they
> > can keep a monopoly on the market. I am fairly confident that if we
> shipped
> > off pieces to enough places we could find someone else who could supply
> it.
> >
> >
> >
> > Also, I have had sample labels in 95% ethanol, 40% formalin and glycerin
> on
> > a window ledge in full sun here at KU for about 5 years now as a very
> > informal test and have noticed no yellowing, brittling, degradation of
> the
> > media and no fading, peeling ort degradation of the print on the labels
> even
> > with rubbing. They seem to be holding up very well in all three
> solutions…
> >
> >
> >
> > Andy
> >
> > A : A : A :
> > }<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<(((_°>
> > V V V
> > Andy Bentley
> > Ichthyology Collection Manager/Specify Usability Lead
> > University of Kansas
> > Natural History Museum & Biodiversity Research Center
> > Dyche Hall
> > 1345 Jayhawk Boulevard
> > Lawrence, KS, 66045-7561
> > USA
> >
> > Tel: (785) 864-3863
> > Fax: (785) 864-5335
> > Email: ABentley at ku.edu
> >
> > A : A : A :
> > }<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<(((_°>.,.,.,.}<(((_°>
> > V V V
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: owner-nhcoll-l at lists.yale.edu [mailto:
> owner-nhcoll-l at lists.yale.edu]
> > On Behalf Of John E Simmons
> > Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 7:33 AM
> > To: Moore, Simon
> > Cc: halford at sfu.ca; amsnyder at unm.edu; NHCOLL-L at lists.yale.edu
> > Subject: [NHCOLL-L:4287] re: Nalgene paper and Tyvek
> >
> >
> >
> > Simon,
> > Yes, it could. The company that manufactures the medium won't tell us
> > exactly what is in it. On the other hand, no one has (yet) reported any
> > problems with it.
> >
> > --John
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 6:41 AM, Moore, Simon <simon.moore at hants.gov.uk>
> > wrote:
> >
> > Hi John,
> >
> >
> >
> > Many thanks for this often non-realised piece of information about the
> > relative instability of Tyvek.
> >
> >
> >
> > Could this UV-instability also apply to labels of spun-bound
> polyethylene
> > (cf. Tyvek) which are currently being experimented using 'hot printers'
> for
> > labelling fluid-preserved material?
> >
> >
> >
> > With all good wishes,
> > Simon Moore, MIScT, FLS, ACR,
> > Senior Conservator of Natural Sciences.
> > Hampshire County Council
> > Recreation & Heritage Department,
> > Museums & Archives Service,
> > Chilcomb House, Chilcomb Lane,
> > Winchester SO23 8RD. UK.
> > Internal 8 327 6737
> > 01962 826737
> > http://www.hants.gov.uk/museum/biology
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: owner-nhcoll-l at lists.yale.edu [mailto:
> owner-nhcoll-l at lists.yale.edu]
> > On Behalf Of John E Simmons
> > Sent: 03 April 2009 15:35
> > To: halford at sfu.ca
> > Cc: amsnyder at unm.edu; NHCOLL-L at lists.yale.edu
> > Subject: [NHCOLL-L:4285] re: Nalgene paper
> >
> > The person who posted the query about Tyvek seems to have the terminology
> a
> > bit confused. Tyvek is not considered archival (meaning stable in the
> > long-term), but is considered inert. Polymers are not archivally stable
> > systems. Tyvek is a form of spun-bonded polyethylene, and like any
> > polyethylene, it is susceptible to deterioration caused by exposure to
> UV.
> > It is not surprising that it disintegrates inside the walls of houses,
> > considering the dose of UV it gets before the walls go up. It is not
> > surprising that a map printed on spun-bonded polyethylene, exposed to UV
> > from natural light and probably unfiltered fluorescents would
> disintegrate,
> > either. If you can avoid exposure to UV, spun-bonded polyethylene can be
> > reasonably stable, but how long it will last depends on the
> formulation--it
> > gets loaded up with other materials to give it color, texture, rigidity,
> and
> > so forth, any of which can hasten its demise. The company selling it may
> > call it archival, but this does not make it archival.
> >
> > --John
> >
> > John E. Simmons
> > Museologica
> > 128 E. Burnside Street
> > Bellefonte, Pennsylvania 16823-2010
> > simmons.johne at gmail.com
> > 303-681-5708
> > www.museologica.com
> > and
> > Adjunct Curator of Collections
> > Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
> > Penn State University
> > 19 Deike Building
> > University Park, Pennsylvania 16802-2709
> > jes67 at psu.edu
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 11:44 PM, Steve Halford <halford at sfu.ca> wrote:
> >
> > This was just posted to SCIART-L:
> >
> > From: Andie Thrams <andiethrams at EARTHLINK.NET>
> > Date: April 2, 2009 5:48:45 PM CDT
> > To: BOOK_ARTS-L at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
> > Subject: [BKARTS] Tyvek Tales
> > Reply-To: Book_Arts-L <BOOK_ARTS-L at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU>
> >
> > Two tyvek tales:
> >
> > 1. I listened with horror to friends, who are general contractors, as
> > they discussed finding disintegrating tyvek inside the walls of homes
> > built less than twenty years ago. They said they found tyvek sheeting
> > in the walls of homes they were renovating in tattered shreds. They
> > are returning to using good old tar paper for their own work as a
> > result.
> >
> > 2. A USGS map from REI, that has been on our wall for under four
> > years, recently crumbled into a zillion pieces and fell right off the
> > wall. It had been printed out from their in-store on-demand machines
> > on a tyvek-like material, though I am uncertain exactly what that
> > material is. To their credit, REI refunded in full. I asked about
> > printing out on paper instead, but this option is not available.
> > (Yikes.)
> >
> > So, what of tyvek and the book arts? I understand some tyvek is sold
> > as "archival," and that this has to do with the various coatings on
> > the tyvek. And, this is what I have been using. But... now I really
> > wonder about tyvek. Can we rest assured about the longevity of this
> > material? Or am I nuts to use it in books I would not want to fall
> > apart in the near future? I really do love how it takes color and have
> > enjoyed using it for end sheets and other purposes, too.
> >
> > Any thoughts out there?
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Andie Thrams
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 7:38 AM, Alexandra M Snyder <amsnyder at unm.edu>
> > wrote:
> >> Dear Alastair,
> >>
> >> I have used Tyvek (product name), which is also made of spun-bonded
> >> polyethylene olefin fibers, for labeling oversize fish specimens in
> tanks
> >> of
> >> ethanol, formalin, and isopropanol. The label is printed using an
> impact
> >> printer (Epson LQ 870). The thermal transfer labels/plastic paper do not
> >> work as well for tank specimens as the hole tends to tear out. I
> purchase
> >> Tyvek 6060 sheets (#18) of 23"x35" from University Products,
> >> Massachusetts
> >> USA. (www.universityproducts.com) This is a heavier paper than the
> rolls
> >> of
> >> type 1443R.
> >>
> >> Lex
> >> **************************************
> >> Alexandra M Snyder
> >> Collections Manager-Fishes
> >> Museum of Southwestern Biology MSC03-2020
> >> 302 Yale NE
> >> University of New Mexico
> >> Albuquerque NM 87131 USA
> >> PH/FAX 505.277.6005
> >> http://www.msb.unm.edu/fishes/index.html
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Steve Halford (halford at sfu.ca)
> > Museum Technician
> > Department of Biological Sciences
> > Simon Fraser University
> > 8888 University Drive
> > Burnaby, B.C. Canada Phone
> > V5A 1S6 778-782-3461
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > John E. Simmons
> > Museologica
> > 128 E. Burnside Street
> > Bellefonte, Pennsylvania 16823-2010
> > simmons.johne at gmail.com
> > 303-681-5708
> > www.museologica.com
> > and
> > Adjunct Curator of Collections
> > Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
> > Penn State University
> > 19 Deike Building
> > University Park, Pennsylvania 16802-2709
> > jes67 at psu.edu
>
>
>
> --
> Steve Halford (halford at sfu.ca)
> Museum Technician
> Department of Biological Sciences
> Simon Fraser University
> 8888 University Drive
> Burnaby, B.C. Canada Phone
> V5A 1S6 778-782-3461
>
--
John E. Simmons
Museologica
128 E. Burnside Street
Bellefonte, Pennsylvania 16823-2010
simmons.johne at gmail.com
303-681-5708
www.museologica.com
and
Adjunct Curator of Collections
Earth and Mineral Science Museum & Art Gallery
Penn State University
19 Deike Building
University Park, Pennsylvania 16802-2709
jes67 at psu.edu
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