[Nhcoll-l] NSC Alliance Washington Report - READ THIS ONE!
Dirk Neumann
dirk.neumann at zsm.mwn.de
Fri Feb 20 02:16:23 EST 2015
Hi all,
as this apparently a huge concern for US collections; why don't you from
a small (not more then 5, maximum 6 people) which draft a response that
could be circulated and further commented? The last few days a lot of
good and plausible information that could be used for a official
statement (e.g. SPNHC) was circulated & discussed here, but in the end
it gets lost in these posts without responsible officials will ever notice.
In Europe, we formed a small but active core group that supports
directors / representatives of our institutions to draft relevant
statements and actively support political lobbying including press
releases and official statements.
Perhaps we have been discussing & complaining too long behind our dusty
drawers and cabinets? Jean-Marc Gagnon posted this nice Nature-Article
link. Budget cuts will continue and bureaucracy will increase.
Collections not only need to get "visible" and "outreach" (digitisation
& citizen science is nice, but doesn't hire taxonomists). We need small
active political lobby groups with taxonomic background that are capable
to address our concerns and needs on various political levels.
2 Persons copy & paste relevant statements and compile a first draft for
a constructive and positive statement (we fully support.... but see
problems in the following sectors). This would be an enormous help for
our already heavily loaded "officials" to develop & push this further.
Also, it might be worth to consider that the legal secretaries and
advisers inside Ministries are largely lawyers, which define their world
according to their (sometimes obscure) ideas and understanding, which
not necessarily means that this is congruent with reality. Some of them,
are happy to receive practicable input that is suited to help them to
make their initiatives work in real life; at least this was our
experience when negotiating with governments officials and the EU
Commission.
My 2 cents
Dirk
Am 20.02.2015 um 07:13 schrieb Kevin Winker:
> Federal regions vary, but in my experience the permitting personnel
> are often overtasked, so reasonable requests to reduce mutual burdens
> while upholding mutual obligations may be accommodated. We do try to
> have positive working relationships with these folks and with other
> agency personnel, and this has served us well and I hope they would on
> balance agree (though I do wish that permitting personnel did not have
> such a high turnover rate). If we keep focused on how best to legally
> collect and preserve specimens for science and education, making them
> appropriately useful and accessible, everyone wins. The less time we
> have to spend not meeting those goals...well, that's better, too. I'm
> not pointing at the present dialogue, but at the issue that began it.
> This thread has helped me better understand the variation that exists
> in our community.
>
> Best, K.
>
> On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 7:12 PM, Brown, Matthew A
> <matthewbrown at utexas.edu <mailto:matthewbrown at utexas.edu>> wrote:
>
> Haha, well if that's so, then color me corrected. I'd read this as
> permit for acquisition or disposal, not to hold collections, but
> it does say possess. I guess my first call tomorrow will be to the
> FWS permitting office asking why they are insistent that a special
> purpose permit is necessary for us to hold a few thousand
> migratory birds in our collections.
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 19, 2015, at 9:29 PM, Kevin Winker <kevin.winker at alaska.edu
> <mailto:kevin.winker at alaska.edu>> wrote:
>
>> Nope. Sorry. This is incorrect: "The only way for a museum
>> collection to legally hold non-eagle migratory bird specimens is
>> with a special purpose permit issued under § 21.27. " See 50 CFR
>> 21.12(b). I suspect most of the bigger and more active bird
>> collections in the U.S. fall under this clause. Those who aren't
>> may wish to inquire whether they can. Here are the details:
>>
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.gpo.gov_fdsys_pkg_CFR-2D2010-2Dtitle50-2Dvol6_xml_CFR-2D2010-2Dtitle50-2Dvol6-2Dsec21-2D12.xml&d=AwID-g&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=pkZbOIHAnrhvH2k73beRPWM-Bkj0tFliirvQO8i0aDQ&s=af7GYLtatN13BjANKAlXpiO3jBlGt4NHt8Y4Ws7NJwM&e=
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.gpo.gov_fdsys_pkg_CFR-2D2010-2Dtitle50-2Dvol6_xml_CFR-2D2010-2Dtitle50-2Dvol6-2Dsec21-2D12.xml&d=AwMFAw&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=nNgs7Q4Cr1pnZXtJg54-yar0U5Zy4qKwMpod11uvphk&s=ouh9A5X1Fzko--AuIGNtlzeM9jGotX2CPZhLjRWB4Ws&e=>
>>
>>
>> "(b)(1) State game departments, municipal game farms or parks,
>> and public museums, public zoological parks, accredited
>> institutional members of the American Association of Zoological
>> Parks and Aquariums (AAZPA) and public scientific or educational
>> institutions may acquire by gift or purchase, possess, transport,
>> and by gift or sale dispose of lawfully acquired migratory birds
>> or their progeny, parts, nests, or eggs without a permit:
>> Provided, That such birds may be acquired only from persons
>> authorized by this paragraph or by a permit issued pursuant to
>> this part to possess and dispose of such birds, or from Federal
>> or State game authorities by the gift of seized, condemned, r
>> sick or injured birds. Any such birds, acquired without a permit,
>> and any progeny therefrom may be disposed of only to persons
>> authorized by this paragraph to acquire such birds without a
>> permit. Any person exercising a privilege granted by this
>> paragraph must keep accurate records of such operations showing
>> the species and number of birds acquired, possessed, and disposed
>> of; the names and addresses of the persons from whom such birds
>> were acquired or to whom such birds were donated or sold; and the
>> dates of such transactions. Records shall be maintained or
>> reproducible in English on a calendar year basis and shall be
>> retained for a period of five (5) years following the end of the
>> calendar year covered by the records."
>>
>> With this, I agree: "One can't just cherry-pick parts of the laws
>> that seem to support your argument, you have to read the relevant
>> laws and regulations in their totality." And that's why I won't
>> be expounding on issues related to paleo collections. ;)
>>
>> Best, K.
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 5:12 PM, Brown, Matthew A
>> <matthewbrown at utexas.edu <mailto:matthewbrown at utexas.edu>> wrote:
>>
>> I'm just going to try this bird permit explanation one last
>> time, and then for the sake of everybody's sanity and
>> probable feelings of disgust, I'll give up.
>>
>> I know that § 21.23 is the scientific collecting permit. And
>> it is only that. It does not authorize the holding of museum
>> collections, in fact § 21.23(c)(1) disallows the keeping of
>> specimens unless the scientific collector is issued a special
>> purpose permit under § 21.27. The only way for a museum
>> collection to legally hold non-eagle migratory bird specimens
>> is with a special purpose permit issued under § 21.27. Those
>> permit conditions mandate annual reporting. CFR 50, Chapter
>> 1, Subchapter B, Part 13, Subpart D § 13.48 requires
>> compliance by the museum with all conditions, including the
>> annual reporting conditions. I have one of these special
>> purpose permits in my hand, right now, looking at the section
>> where it says it is issued under the authority of § 13 and §
>> 21.27, and that annual reporting is required each year. Not
>> just for five years, but each year that the permit is valid.
>> That means that as long as an institution holds migratory
>> birds, annual Federal reporting is required. One can't just
>> cherry-pick parts of the laws that seem to support your
>> argument, you have to read the relevant laws and regulations
>> in their totality.
>>
>> And we haven't even gotten to migratory birds collected from
>> Federal land yet. This is just DOI USFWS regs for migratory
>> birds that aren't bald or golden eagles. Not for paleo or
>> cultural items, not even for all natural history collections.
>> Just non-eagle migratory birds. Onerous? Maybe. But it is
>> also required by law, and what we signed up for when we took
>> positions of responsibility in museums.
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Feb 19, 2015, at 2:43 PM, Ellen Paul
>> <ellen.paul at verizon.net <mailto:ellen.paul at verizon.net>> wrote:
>> >
>> > By the way, 21.27 is NOT "
>> > "The special use permit required by § 21.27 for a museum
>> collection"
>> >
>> > 21.27 is just what it says it is: Permits may be issued for
>> special purpose activities related to migratory birds, their
>> parts, nests, or eggs, which are otherwise outside the scope
>> of the standard form permits of this part. A special purpose
>> permit for migratory bird related activities not otherwise
>> provided for in this part may be issued to an applicant who
>> submits a written application containing the general
>> information and certification required by part 13 and makes a
>> sufficient showing of benefit to the migratory bird resource,
>> important research reasons, reasons of human concern for
>> individual birds, or other compelling justification.
>> >
>> >
>> > Scientific collecting is covered by 21.23. Therefore, 21.27
>> is inapplicable.
>> >
>> > Ellen Paul
>> > Executive Director
>> > The Ornithological Council
>> > Email:
>> > ellen.paul at verizon.net <mailto:ellen.paul at verizon.net>
>> >
>> > "Providing Scientific Information about Birds
>> > "
>> >
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.nmnh.si.edu_BIRDNET&d=AwIF-g&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=mPwcdPJvBXjWEXqjb6PW7yMBMoOsdQrXAC2_7oZUNPw&s=UsNXAFaBAHIerQGjpFN5dtwwwlq7Lc2IXJc4OcwJ9KA&e=
>> "
>> >
>> > On 2/19/15 3:28 PM, Brown, Matthew A wrote:
>> >> REPOSITORY RECEIPT FOR COLLECTIONS
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> > Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu <mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>> > http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the
>> Preservation of
>> > Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international
>> society whose
>> > mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and
>> management of
>> > natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> > society. See
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.spnhc.org&d=AwIF-g&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=mPwcdPJvBXjWEXqjb6PW7yMBMoOsdQrXAC2_7oZUNPw&s=cH1K2cL8FWfssRNn8g9BjMScv80dXBCAt1XhJGkd6yU&e=
>> for membership information.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nhcoll-l mailing list
>> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu <mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
>> http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
>> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society
>> whose
>> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and
>> management of
>> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
>> society. See https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.spnhc.org&d=AwID-g&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=pkZbOIHAnrhvH2k73beRPWM-Bkj0tFliirvQO8i0aDQ&s=W995c41r35G-r_0F14AurxALV_QNzXgqfIQEZ23t868&e=
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.spnhc.org&d=AwMFAw&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=nNgs7Q4Cr1pnZXtJg54-yar0U5Zy4qKwMpod11uvphk&s=li42Sfr54PiGlL6PIboyHVQbRS96gHFcSiM5dC877fE&e=>
>> for membership information.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kevin Winker
>> University of Alaska Museum
>> 907 Yukon Drive
>> Fairbanks, AK 99775
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu <mailto:Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu>
> http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.spnhc.org&d=AwID-g&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=pkZbOIHAnrhvH2k73beRPWM-Bkj0tFliirvQO8i0aDQ&s=W995c41r35G-r_0F14AurxALV_QNzXgqfIQEZ23t868&e=
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.spnhc.org&d=AwMFaQ&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=56LW3aPSsQIRyhi44NVawGWmZZ-rtBTeAOT0NNPRdu8&s=YEkxNVWuL2Yl5qOmY20ES7t4YebdQi70Xx5P1kBmlPg&e=>
> for membership information.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Kevin Winker
> University of Alaska Museum
> 907 Yukon Drive
> Fairbanks, AK 99775
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nhcoll-l mailing list
> Nhcoll-l at mailman.yale.edu
> http://mailman.yale.edu/mailman/listinfo/nhcoll-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> NHCOLL-L is brought to you by the Society for the Preservation of
> Natural History Collections (SPNHC), an international society whose
> mission is to improve the preservation, conservation and management of
> natural history collections to ensure their continuing value to
> society. See https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.spnhc.org&d=AwID-g&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=pkZbOIHAnrhvH2k73beRPWM-Bkj0tFliirvQO8i0aDQ&s=W995c41r35G-r_0F14AurxALV_QNzXgqfIQEZ23t868&e= for membership information.
--
Dirk Neumann
Tel: 089 / 8107-111
Fax: 089 / 8107-300
email: Dirk.Neumann(a)zsm.mwn.de
Postanschrift:
Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche Sammlungen Bayerns
Zoologische Staatssammlung München
Dirk Neumann, Sektion Ichthyologie / DNA-Labor
Münchhausenstr. 21
81247 München
Besuchen Sie unsere Sammlung:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.zsm.mwn.de_ich_&d=AwID-g&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=pkZbOIHAnrhvH2k73beRPWM-Bkj0tFliirvQO8i0aDQ&s=1LjUR5xI-BSD8Lmh47DMp4p-N19X1ZH3HoSWHb59ZEc&e=
---------
Dirk Neumann
Tel: +49-89-8107-111
Fax: +49-89-8107-300
email: Dirk.Neumann(a)zsm.mwn.de
postal address:
Bavarian Natural History Collections
The Bavarian State Collection of Zoology
Dirk Neumann, Section Ichthyology / DNA-Lab
Muenchhausenstr. 21
81247 Munich (Germany)
Visit our section at:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.zsm.mwn.de_ich_&d=AwID-g&c=-dg2m7zWuuDZ0MUcV7Sdqw&r=CLFZJ3fvGSmDp7xK1dNZfh6uGV_h-8NVlo3fXNoRNzI&m=pkZbOIHAnrhvH2k73beRPWM-Bkj0tFliirvQO8i0aDQ&s=1LjUR5xI-BSD8Lmh47DMp4p-N19X1ZH3HoSWHb59ZEc&e=
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.yale.edu/pipermail/nhcoll-l/attachments/20150220/39b09c23/attachment.html
More information about the Nhcoll-l
mailing list