[Nhcoll-l] Lawyers trying to define species and subspecies

Tue Nov 28 02:25:00 EST 2017

Hi all,

beyond this focus, there is another issue: legislators depend on 
definitions, and definitions tend to survive individual administrations 
and usually stay for decades. We are currently struggling with old 
definitions for basic and applied research, which were established in 
the 1960s and have been adapted by legislators to define basic research 
under the ABS law of the European Union.

In short: basic = gaining the knowledge that something might be a new 
species, applied = if you use this insight to describe this species 
(because you apply your knowledge).

 From this perspective, objective input in this case might be wanted to 
avoid potential issues that would reach beyond current quarrels of US 
Congress with ESA.

All the best
Dirk

Am 28.11.2017 um 01:37 schrieb Peter Rauch:
> Ellen,
>
> What easier way to tell Congress how ridiculous the ESA is than to 
> seemingly point out, by way of a legal petition, that "there is not 
> such thing as a 'species'" "? "Protect this species!"???  "What 
> species?"  "We don't need no stinkin' ESA!"....
>
> Peter
>
> On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 2:12 PM, Ellen Paul <ellen.paul at verizon.net 
> <mailto:ellen.paul at verizon.net>> wrote:
>
>     Odd that they would do this with so many bills pending that would
>     effectively kill the ESA.
>
>
>     https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__ornithologyexchange.org_articles_-5F_community_endangered-2Dspecies-2Dact-2Dlegislation-2Dmoving-2Dthrough-2Dhouse-2Dr255&d=DwIDaQ&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=LpYc_Z_iN1KRw0hheb3x6-8MJUMu482qfHowpGYJqwc&m=75sTEJwGX1Q_6UoebfEtRuOopLyct3HZ2mO8QOBdEqo&s=U9FgV6Ur2OdewmJNb3iJTtudQdlztGtIeXzikteizdo&e=
>     <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__ornithologyexchange.org_articles_-5F_community_endangered-2Dspecies-2Dact-2Dlegislation-2Dmoving-2Dthrough-2Dhouse-2Dr255&d=DwMDaQ&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=LpYc_Z_iN1KRw0hheb3x6-8MJUMu482qfHowpGYJqwc&m=_gfTqthSnF9_eCxjdA_fUwQM5jThlr6I8plAHDv_dNc&s=YcBie7UmCOlkuTSpSSgckl9nrzA1jXeM-CeiD-UTzuA&e=>
>
>
>     Ellen Paul
>
>     Executive Director
>
>     Ornithological Council
>     <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.nmnh.si.edu_BIRDNET&d=DwMDaQ&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=LpYc_Z_iN1KRw0hheb3x6-8MJUMu482qfHowpGYJqwc&m=_gfTqthSnF9_eCxjdA_fUwQM5jThlr6I8plAHDv_dNc&s=OdiTZCZ3gBr-teTqNDHJg2dkxSKPp4NTAn_gl0hg2rs&e=>
>
>
>     Phone (301) 986 8568 <tel:%28301%29%20986-8568>
>
>     Providing Scientific Information about Birds
>
>
>
>     On 11/27/17 4:40 PM, Kevin Winker wrote:
>>     Something to watch in the U.S. with respect to the Endangered
>>     Species Act.
>>
>>     https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__pacificlegal.org_a-2Dpetition-2Dto-2Dresolve-2Dthe-2Dendangered-2Dspecies-2Dact-2Dtaxonomy-2Ddebate_&d=DwIDaQ&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=LpYc_Z_iN1KRw0hheb3x6-8MJUMu482qfHowpGYJqwc&m=75sTEJwGX1Q_6UoebfEtRuOopLyct3HZ2mO8QOBdEqo&s=wy7mZcafA47GltvTWajCSJu-kRRNpEtJtIfMR3yg9ys&e=
>>     <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__pacificlegal.org_a-2Dpetition-2Dto-2Dresolve-2Dthe-2Dendangered-2Dspecies-2Dact-2Dtaxonomy-2Ddebate_&d=DwMFaQ&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=LpYc_Z_iN1KRw0hheb3x6-8MJUMu482qfHowpGYJqwc&m=F7Qf40N7aydjKoJB1ng5HvD1Hq7NOIjijifKOsnkShs&s=sZ3X9tNUz0FuGxL6oW9mdEXaWpuxbJFsEJndoAzXO-s&e=>
>>     https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__pacificlegal.org_wp-2Dcontent_uploads_2017_11_ESA-2DTaxonomy-2DRulemaking-2DPetition.pdf&d=DwIDaQ&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=LpYc_Z_iN1KRw0hheb3x6-8MJUMu482qfHowpGYJqwc&m=75sTEJwGX1Q_6UoebfEtRuOopLyct3HZ2mO8QOBdEqo&s=47NfLfxLnmg2ZjNAkTsU782AbFuh3nkZ2iKYz1zrmG8&e=
>>     <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__pacificlegal.org_wp-2Dcontent_uploads_2017_11_ESA-2DTaxonomy-2DRulemaking-2DPetition.pdf&d=DwMFaQ&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=LpYc_Z_iN1KRw0hheb3x6-8MJUMu482qfHowpGYJqwc&m=F7Qf40N7aydjKoJB1ng5HvD1Hq7NOIjijifKOsnkShs&s=kmqbJNIejKoODst1y-ZEo4IVyv9eWGY_QI9PflZVlxM&e=>
>>
>>     Personally, I think they get both definitions wrong. Species by
>>     proposing a 1% hybridization threshold and subspecies by
>>     including genetics in the 75% rule. There are other issues, but
>>     those stuck out to me.
>>
>>     (Thanks to Hannah Waters for sending me these links.)
>>
>>     Best, K.
>>     -- 
>>     Kevin Winker
>>     University of Alaska Museum
>>     907 Yukon Drive
>>     <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__maps.google.com_-3Fq-3D907-2BYukon-2BDrive-2B-250D-2BFairbanks-2C-2BAK-2B99775-26entry-3Dgmail-26source-3Dg&d=DwMFaQ&c=cjytLXgP8ixuoHflwc-poQ&r=LpYc_Z_iN1KRw0hheb3x6-8MJUMu482qfHowpGYJqwc&m=SHvTTGxoCd0ciGCcT_JQU_utSdXLCS_ZaEvHY-HkRRo&s=gmwaORgY-z0-AGtUh-DJgU9ltIp1muGESrbYaFBAUco&e=>
>>     Fairbanks, AK 99775
>>     kevin.winker at alaska.edu <mailto:kevin.winker at alaska.edu>
>>
>
>
>
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-- 
Dirk Neumann

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---------

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