Linda Rogers. How it works.

[Linda Rogers]

At 09:13 PM 10/10/00 -0400, you wrote:
>     Sorry, I was ready to be done with the monarch thing. But The message
>form Linda Rogers compels me to jump in here again. First, her message then
>my comments.
>
> >From Linda:
> >According to
> >the butterfly society leaders listed below, this
> >is already a big problem. They wrote:
> >(see http://www.naba.org/weddings.html):
> >
> >"In addition, these releases create a commercial market for
> >live butterflies (currently about $10/apiece), with the result that,
> >for example, the Monarch overwintering sites in Mexico and on
> >the California coast are now targets for poachers."
> >
> >Jeffrey Glassberg (president of NABA)
> >Paul Opler
> >Robert M. Pyle
> >Robert Robbins
> >James Tuttle (president, (Lepidopterists' Society)
>
>************************************
>
>I never did know quite how they (authors above) thought that would work.  A
>poacher, or butterfly bandito, would collect butterflies in Mexico from the
>overwintering site, then if they sent them 2-day  delivery to the U.S. to a
>butterfly vendor, then they were unpackaged and repackaged for shipment to
>customers, well, none of them would survive all of that shipping and
>packing.  It simply would not work!  Besides, you cannot ship live insects
>from Mexico into the U.S. without a permit and USDA would not allow this,
>would they?  Or, do they think that butterfly poacher farms will spring up
>down in Mexico and ship to customers in the U.S.?  I just never did get how
>this terrifically lucrative poacher business was supposed to work.
>
>And since that statement was made, how many such butterfly poaching
>operations are known to exist?  Has this been found to happen, as
>predicted?  How long can you keep saying something COULD happen, when it
>doesn't occur and evidently never will?
>
>Linda Rogers
>***********************************
>
>Dear Linda,
>     Your kidding, right. I find it hard to believe that anybody today is
>really that naive (sweet). Have you ever heard of Cocaine?
>     "Gosh, Pablo, how are we going to get this three tons of drugs to the
>US? I mean we cannot ship drugs (live insects) from Mexico into the U.S.
>without a permit from the FDA (USDA)."   Your statement of... "you cannot
>ship live insects from Mexico into the U.S. without a permit." is
>incredible. No wonder you, by your own words, don't get it.  How is it
>suppose to WORK?  BY BREAKING THE LAW! If there are marijuana farms there
>can be illegal any-other-kind of "farm."
>They are called "crooks" because their dealings are crooked, felonious.

         I REALIZE THAT.  I'M PRETTY SWEET BUT I'M NOT STUPID.
         I GREW UP IN EL PASO, TEXAS SO I KNOW ABOUT SMUGGLING.
         I THOUGHT IT WOULDN'T WORK BECAUSE EVENTUALLY THEY
         WOULD GET CAUGHT ON ONE END OR THE OTHER.  THAT
         HAPPENS SOMETIMES.  THE USDA IS GETTING PRETTY
         GOOD AT CATCHING VIOLATORS THESE DAYS.  ALSO,
         I DON'T KNOW OF ANY BUTTERFLY FARMERS
         (REMEMBER YOU WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A "FENCE" FOR
         THESE BUTTERFLIES) WHO WOULD PURCHASE FROM
         SUCH SOURCES.  YOU HAVE TO HAVE AN OUTLET FOR
         YOUR FELONIOUSLY-ACQUIRED GOODS.  SO FAR, I
         DON'T SEE THE "BUTTERFLY CONNECTION" COMING
         TOGETHER.

>     You are a monarch "expert" and you can't think of a way to ship living
>specimens from point A to point B to point C without them dying in transit
>in just a few days.

         OH, NO.  I'M NOT A MONARCH EXPERT.
         YOU GUYS ARE ALL THE EXPERTS.

>First, as Lepidoptera go, monarchs are very long lived.
>Second, they overwinter in the tops of trees because it is not as COLD in
>the top of the tree and it is on the ground. Humm. Their elevation on the
>tree is important to keep them cold but not too cold. Cold, humm, cold, YAH
>COLD!! "Hey Pablo, I didn't get a permit but I found this guy who will drive
>the monarchs packed in COOLERS to the states where they can be kept alive in
>COOLers for months till we find a buyer at $10 a bug-head."

         I'M NOT AN EXPERT BUT I DO KNOW THAT THIS WON'T
         WORK (ABOVE) AND THAT'S WHAT I WAS TALKING
         ABOUT.  AND WITH THE LUCRATIVE COCAINE AND POT
         TRADE, WHY WOULD A BUNCH OF CUT-THROATS MESS
         WITH A COOLER FULL OF INSECTS?  THERE'S A BIT MORE
         MONEY IN EL DROGAS.

         AND, LIKE I ASKED BEFORE, IF THIS IS SUCH A RISK AND
         SUCH A GOOD IDEA FOR THIEVES, WHY HAVEN'T WE
         HEARD ABOUT IT HAPPENING?  HOW LONG AGO WAS
         THAT IDEA POSTED?  SHOULDN'T WE BE SEEING A
         WHOLE LOT OF THIS OCCURING IF IT'S SUCH A GOOD
         IDEA AND SO EASY TO ACCOMPLISH?

         LINDA ROGERS

>     Perhaps, this is how Jeffrey Glassberg, Paul Opler, Robert M. Pyle,
>Robert Robbins, and James Tuttle (president, (Lepidopterists' Society)
>thought it might work.