Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX Norbert.Kondla at
Thu Oct 12 15:04:53 EDT 2000

Can anyone remember exactly where anyone on this list has stated that forest
exploitation is not a concern in relation to the overwintering monarchs ?
Seems to me the matter to be resolved is how much and what kind of forest
use and at what times of the year is forest use to be allowed without
substantially impacting the monarchs.   I believe there will continue to be
different views as to preferred decisions.  I also fully expect that some
people will react to some of the views as though someone urinated in their
cornflakes :-)  -- and besides, scientific facts, like all facts, are only
facts in the minds of those who think they are facts - are we having fun yet

-----Original Message-----
From: Chip Taylor [mailto:chip at]
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 7:18 AM
To: leps-l at

Lincoln Brower asked me to forward this response to Mr. Cherubini.

Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 20:24:13 -0400
From: "Lincoln P. Brower" <brower at
Subject: Mr. Cherubini's rhetoric.

I is hardly worth continuing to rebut the convoluted reasoning and
twisting of scientific facts as presented by Mr. Cherubini on this list
Suffice it to say that if anyone looks at the ecology and
geographic distribution of the Oyamel fir forests in Mexico, most of these
forests where monarchs CAN overwinter are near the mountain tops where the
trees require the moist cool climate at the high altitude.  Thus, as
global warming occurs, the Oyamel forests will be forced to migrate
further up the mountains ...but there is no where to go because the
mountains are not high enough.  The warming and consequent drier climate
that will prevail at the altitudes on the mountains that they now occupy
will result in the Oyamels being replaced by pines at a much lower
density.  Monarchs in their Mexican overwintering sites do not tolerate
open forest conditions and will have nowhere to go.  The amateurish and
poor grasp of the ecology expressed in the continued biased judgements
emanating from this man's hand nullify his reasoning.  There is no doubt
that monarchs are endangered in their overwintering sites because of
forest explotiation.....absolutely none.

Lincoln Brower.

Professor Lincoln P. Brower
Research Professor of Biology
Sweet Briar College
Sweet Briar, VA 24595
(Distinguished Service Professor of Zoology Emeritus, University of Florida)
Office: 804-277-5065 or 5655
Fax:      Call ahead and arrange


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