The not-so-deadly West Nile Virus

[Mark Walker]

Actually, David, I wasn't targeting you.  I just found it interesting that I
could replace a few key words to transform your statement into an argument
from the opposite side of the argument.  Also, Michaels statement sounded
very much like something Paul might write.  Just a general poke at the whole
debate.

Mark.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Smith [mailto:idleweed at tusco.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 3:27 AM
> To: Mark Walker; leps-l at lists.yale.edu
> Subject: Re: The not-so-deadly West Nile Virus
> 
> 
> I was not talking about Paul. Many of his posts I find interesting and
> informative. I was talking about citing and relying on people 
> paid for there
> views such as mosquito control districts, paid witnesses in 
> court cases,
> etc. Now I realize that this could have included Paul because 
> he is a paid
> insecticide salesman (So I understand) but that is not the 
> way it was meant,
> it was to his references I referred. I am not an 
> preservationist but rather
> consider myself more conservation oriented.
>     David Smith
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Walker" <MWalker at gensym.com>
> To: <idleweed at tusco.net>; <leps-l at lists.yale.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 3:36 AM
> Subject: RE: The not-so-deadly West Nile Virus
> 
> 
> > David Smith wrote, but I plagiarized:
> >
> > "The various Florida <environmental activist groups 
> spokespersons> cannot
> be
> > said to be unbiased on this topic.  They are fighting to 
> keep their jobs.
> I
> > lived in Florida when they shut down <various recreational 
> activities on
> > public lands> and you should have read the statistics on 
> how many <birds,
> > bugs, and beasties> there were, and after the <various recreational
> > activities> were shut down there wasn't that much 
> difference.  It seems as
> > though most people <scientists, activists, tree-huggers> 
> will go to great
> > lengths to keep their job and statistics is probably one of 
> the easiest
> ways
> > to misinform other people"
> >
> > It really is kind of funny how both sides of this argument 
> seem to speak
> out
> > of both sides of their mouths.  I can just imagine how 
> badly Mr. Paul
> would
> > have been slaughtered on this list if he had said something like,
> "Contrary
> > to the 1999 news media in New York and the 2001 news media 
> in Florida,
> West
> > Nile is NOT a particularly deadly virus. And compared with 
> many other
> public
> > health problems it is a NEGLIGIBLE cause of mortality.", if 
> it had been
> > referring to NEGLIGIBLE insect mortality (which is 
> precisely what Paul has
> > been basically saying for at least five years now).  In fact, the
> > similarities between this statement and Paul's usual post 
> are striking.
> > Surely everyone else can see that.
> >
> > Personally, I don't consider even a single human death by
> insect-transmitted
> > virus negligible.  As I've said, I share other's disdain for
> indiscriminate
> > and mass spraying.  But come on - are you folks really 
> suggesting that
> these
> > few deaths are an exaggeration???
> >
> > You know - I'm just as upset with the shark attacks, 
> because I know that
> > this will provide a license to slaughter virtually every 
> shark seen in
> > shallow Floridian waters - all in the name of Florida 
> tourism.  On the
> other
> > hand, I won't be planning any beachfront vacations to 
> Florida any time
> soon.
> > Even if a few missing limbs would be negligible.
> >
> > Mark Walker.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > The various Florida mosquito control districts cannot be said
> > > to be unbiased
> > > on this topic. They are fighting to keep there jobs. I lived
> > > in Florida when
> > > they shut down the auto inspection stations and you should
> > > have read the
> > > statistics on how many defective cars there were, after the
> > > stations were
> > > shut down there wasn't that much difference. It seems as
> > > though most people
> > > (scientists, mechanics, whatever) will go to great lengths to
> > > keep there job
> > > and statistics is probably one of the easiest ways to 
> misinform other
> > > people.
> > >    David Smith
> > > "Michael Gochfeld" <gochfeld at EOHSI.RUTGERS.EDU> wrote in message
> > > news:1010827192714.ZM18278 at Gochfeld...
> > > > As a public health professional who has had several
> > > opportunities to be
> > > > responsible for controlling vector borne diseases
> > > (including by massive
> > > > use of pesticides, including DDT) as well as studying 
> them, I feel
> > > > compelled to comment on the spraying issue vis-a-vis West
> > > Nile virus.
> > > >
> > > > Contrary to the 1999 news media in New York and the 2001
> > > news media in
> > > > Florida, West Nile is NOT a particularly deadly virus. And
> > > compared with
> > > > many other public health problems it is a NEGLIGIBLE cause
> > > of mortality.
> > > >
> > > > The basis for this is given in the attached article which I
> > > completed
> > > > last week.
> > > >
> > > > Whether or not there are risks to humans from the
> > > pesticides, there is
> > > > little evidence that the pesticide use has been beneficial
> > > in reducing
> > > > the risk of West Nile to humans (or to crows, if you're
> > > concerned about
> > > > their health).
> > > >
> > > > Does anyone find it remarkable that there are no published
> > > accounts of
> > > > the efficacy of spraying in controlling West Nile (or even the
> > > > mosquitoes).
> > > >
> > > > Likewise, although there are abundant published 
> accounts about the
> > > > numbers of dead birds showing up from southern Canada to
> > > the Gulf Coast,
> > > > denominator information is lacking.  Are 10 infected crows
> > > a lot or a
> > > > little.  It's very difficult to tell because there are 
> virtually no
> > > > published accounts of the numbers of birds tested.  
> However, the few
> > > > data points indicate that even for crows (a species
> > > especially sensitive
> > > > to West Nile virus), fewer than half of the birds tested
> > > are positive
> > > > for WNV.  Moreover, overall in NJ and NY, in the past 
> two years more
> > > > dead birds have succumbed from pesticide poisoning than from WNV
> > > > according to state veterinarians.
> > > >
> > > > My argument is that it is not a case of human health vs 
> ecological
> > > > health, but that human health has benefitted little, if at
> > > all, from the
> > > > spraying.  Moreover, in 1999 when the media was besotted
> > > with spraying,
> > > > it failed to convey the messages from CDC and other
> > > agencies, regarding
> > > > how people could reduce exposure to mosquitoes through 
> control of
> > > > breeding places.
> > > >
> > > > As the attached article based on CDC publications and web sites
> > > > explains, only a minute proportion of people who become infected
> > > > with WNV (generally less than a half or tenth of 1%) get
> > > seriously ill
> > > > (of these about 10% die). The vast majority experience NO
> > > SYMPTOMS AT
> > > > ALL.  They are only discovered when random serologic surveys are
> > > > conducted in presumed endemic areas.
> > > >
> > > > Compared with the 2400 deaths in New Jersey from influenza
> > > and pneumonia
> > > > in the year 2000, the one death from West Nile seems paltry
> > > (except to
> > > > the family of the victim, of course).
> > > >
> > > > Moreover, West Nile isn't even a major cause of
> > > encephalitis/meningitis,
> > > > causing only about 5% of the cases that occurred in the
> > > tri-state area
> > > > in 2000.
> > > >
> > > > Call me when there is an epidemic of Eastern Equine, a 
> disease that
> > > > kills 25% or more of those infected, and shows a propensity
> > > for young
> > > > people and children (who are apparently resistant to WNV).
> > > >
> > > > And while we're at it, compare the risks of slathering
> > > toddlers with the
> > > > neurotoxic DEET to the negligible risk of West Nile infection in
> > > > children.
> > > >
> > > > Balancing risks is important. MICHAEL GOCHFELD
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
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> > >
> > >
> 

 
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