Photos of urban monarch overwintering sites in California

[Chris J. Durden]

. . .
>We are, in fact, playing God, taking over nature's "plan" and this might
>be perfectly fine. We have hardly achieved a consensus on what we want,
>though, and we get too soon old and too late wise.
>I think it is important, on this list, to hear from the extremists as
>well as the middle ground. I think we are enriched by Paul and Neil and
>all the other opinionated, well-informed, cantankerous, cranky and
>delightful leppers. . . . .
 
 
 
 
>Had you all been consulted, would there now be Cabbage Whites in
>California?
 
If cabbages are permitted, yes, and maybe we need the large white (a
beautiful species) as well.
If cabbages are not permitted, no!
 
>For my part, I am concerned that we are making the planet into a bad
>place for *people* to live.
>I find that people who are unconcerned by the effect of pesticides on
>their own health are immediately involved when you mention that
>butterflies are killed by Dursban or whatever ... and will make the
>sacrifice for the butterflies that they will not make for their own
>health.
>It's a flawed approach, of course, but, like leaping from ice floe to
>ice floe, each one only has to float until you leap to the next one, and
>we are supported by our own impetus.
 
And this really is the "bottom line"....
 
>The real problem is overpopulation ... until a plague or war or meteor
>solves it. Or until it turns out that we have achieved critical mass and
>are received into our place among the gods.
>so ... learning to negotiate, to consider other people's views ... not a
>bad way to amuse oneself on a winter's day.
>
>Seems to me the question we're tapdancing around here is, is the Monarch
>an indicator species, or is it replacing a wide variety of other species
>as habitats are degraded or eliminated.
>
>It's important because Paul's argument seems to be: of course
>butterflies aren't in trouble; there are plenty of Monarchs. If it's an
>indicator species, that's fine and
>of course he's right.
 
 
 
>If it's replacing all the other little guys,
>that's appalling.
>I shall now raise my umbrella and hunker down.
>Anne Kilmer
>south Florida
 
Seems obvious that the Monarch is a weed species, low on the
successional  chain. The larvae feed on weed species that appear on
disturbed ground early in vegetational succession. It has an impressive
history of colonization of a large part of the world's islands. It hardly
seems in trouble as a species. Now the probability of historic seasonal
clustering in the same places, forever, does seem threatened.
................Chris Durden
 
 
 
 
 
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