Overpopulation v. Willful Stupidity

Sat Jan 27 15:05:41 EST 2001

_______________________________________________________
--- Mark Walker <MWalker at gensym.com> wrote:
> I would argue that the "problem" described here can
> in fact be related to
> too many humans.  First, you wouldn't likely be
> concerned about or even
> notice such hunting behavior if there were fewer
> people (and hence more
> wilderness).  Second, there would likely be fewer
> hunters involved.  And
> third, hunters would be less likely to aggregate in
> areas that would be
> unable to handle their predation.  I would argue
> that even in the cases of
> the American Bison and the Carrier Pigeon, both were
> doomed in large part
> because of population effects.  Stupid population,
> true.  But too many
> stupid people is a function of too many people.
>
> I say habitat loss is directly related to human
> population.  It is also
> related to greed, selfishness, and power mongering.
> But since these are
> human characteristics, I don't see how one can
> comfortably suggest that the
> world can handle a growing population - especially a
> growing population that
> is greedy, selfish, and power hungry.
>
> I once heard someone say that the whole population
> of the United States
> could comfortably live within the boundaries of
> Jacksonville, Florida.  I
> don't know how true this is - although it would be
> simple to prove/disprove
> based on simple area calculations.  I suppose if
> this were possible, there
> could still be plenty of habitat left for Panthers
> and other higher order
> carnivores.
>
> Mark Walker.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jean-Michel MAES [mailto:jmmaes at ibw.com.ni]
> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 9:41 AM
> To: mbpi at juno.com; LEPS-L at lists.yale.edu
> Subject: RE: Overpopulation v. Willful Stupidity
>
>
> Mass hunting still exists.
>
> In Rio San JUan, Nicaragua, there is a company that
> promotes duck hunting.
> Rich people go there (mostly from US) and shoot
> ducks. 20 hunters can kill
> up to 1,000 ducks in a week. They have no problems
> with CITES as they did
> not export nothing. In this case the problem is not
> over population, just
> crazy way of pleasure of some people.
>
> That's not about collecting and nothing to see with
> butterflies, sorry. I
> will not do it more.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Jean-Michel MAES
> MUSEO ENTOMOLOGICO
> AP 527
> LEON
> NICARAGUA
> tel 505-3116586
> jmmaes at ibw.com.ni <mailto:jmmaes at ibw.com.ni>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: < mbpi at juno.com <mailto:mbpi at juno.com> >
> To: < LEPS-L at lists.yale.edu
> <mailto:LEPS-L at lists.yale.edu> >
> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 6:44 AM
> Subject: Overpopulation v. Willful Stupidity
>
>
> > Keeping things in context, since this IS
> "supposed" to be a
> > butterfly-related listserv...
> >
> > In my humble opinion (which I'm sure will be shot
> full of holes by the
> > rabid archivists with their stockpiled artillery
> of irrefutable
> > literature), I don't believe that "overpopulation"
> is the REAL problem in
> > the degredation of adequate habitat and the
> extirpation/extinction of the
> > biodiversity of local and transient populations.
> I believe it is the
> > result of greed, ignorance, a lack of
> appreciation, poor planning, and a
> > lack of foresight.
> >
> > Witness the Passenger Pigeon:  it was exterminated
> at a time when the US
> > was barely populated and the numbers of Passenger
> Pigeons FAR exceeded
> > the number of people on the continent!  The North
> American Bison almost
> > met the same fate...for equally self-indulgent
> reasons...and by a
> > relative "handful" of the population. ( And I
> won't even go into the
> > Peregrine Falcon and the Bald Eagle, for fear of
> re-opening that can of
> > worms!!!!)
> >
> > Flash forward to the late 20th century.  We've
> come a long way in
> > "raising our consciousness," but we still adhere
> to our proscribed mantra
> > of "self-indulgence..." even more so than in the
> past because we "know" a
> > lot more and have easy access to that knowledge.
> Except NOW, we use that
> > knowledge to rationalize our way out of sticky
> situtations that we DON'T
> > want to be "held accountable" for.
> >
> > No, I don't think "overpopulation" is the problem:
>  I think it is just as
> > easy for one "collecter" to exterminate a local
> population, as it was for
> > a small nation east of the Mississippi to
> eradicate the entire Passenger
> > Pigeon population.  This is not a slam-damning
> soliloquy against
> > collectors:  I believe there IS a place for
> RESPONSIBLE collecting for
> > research...not for self-gratuitious greed.  I
> think capitalistic
> > "developers" wreak far more havoc with the
> biodiversity of indemic
> > populations than collectors:  and for every "new
> development" there is a
> > city-scape or rural environment left a "ghost
> town" by the scramble to
> > inhabit these newly invested domains.  That's
> where the "planners" SHOULD
> > come into THEIR consciousness of rethinking these
> abandoned neighborhoods
> > to INCREASE the biodiversity rather than maintain
> the sterilization that
> > drove the dissatisfied tennants out to begin
> with...  Big cities (and big
> > corporations) seem to have a vendetta for
> corraling people into
> > hermetically sealed, inhumane environments.  It
> has nothing to do with
> > "overpopulation," it is simply a lack of regard
> for anything living...
> >
> > I could go on and on (like so many others on this
> listserv), but I'm
> > through.
> >
> > Go ahead:  throw your stones!!!!
> >
> > M.B. Prondzinski
> > USA

All,

In the future when we restore our environment (at
tremendous cost) people will be stacked up in vertical
cities.  But first we must introduce planning and
un-biased science..but first we must eliminate "greed,
selfishness, and power mongering".

Excellent comments guys!

Bob Parcelles, Jr.
Pinellas Park, Fl.

>

=====
Bob Parcelles, Jr
Pinellas Park, FL
RJP Associates <rjpassociates at yahoo.com>
rjparcelles at yahoo.com
http://rainforest.care2.com/welcome?w=976131876
"Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life."- Confucius

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/

 ------------------------------------------------------------

   For subscription and related information about LEPS-L visit:

   http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl