Overpopulation v. Willful Stupidity

Sat Jan 27 15:50:40 EST 2001

I figure basically we're a ferment. When confined in too small an area,
they tend to poison themselves with their own wastes.
If we get smart fast enough, we don't do that. Sort of a race with doom.
If I were a God, this would amuse me as a hobby. And I would be unable
to resist the temptation to mess with it, possibly showing up in person
to make suggestions on how you increase human biomass without going
toxic.
Christianity, if it were ever tried, might work well for this.

Do the cute ape-folks learn to fly their planet before they reach
critical mass? Thrills, spills, exciting adventures ... oh no, the
ocean's going belly-up; do they figure it out and start processing their
sewage in time?

So ... getting to the leps ... Frankenfood. A way to increase the amount
of nutrition available to human people, so we can feed more.
Three sorts: Superfood (Vitamin C-enriched rice) ... probably ok.
Weed-killer resistant plants ... dodgy, because non-target plants may
pick up the traits when they are fertilized. Thus legumes growing near
gene-engineered soy might also be Roundup resistant.
Bug-killing plants ... scary. Here again, I worry about the pollen
fertilizing other grasses, or other legumes, or other brassicas ...
roadside weeds which provide hosts for many of our butterflies.
Whether or not these last two sets of plants are harmless to me
personally, and I'm not so sure about that,  I'm not happy about their
long-term effects on the environment. On butterflies. And there's no way
to get them back. No encapsulated killer gene that would make them drop
in their tracks ... Monsanto was going to put one in, but we told them
not to. And maybe we were right.
But if we go on reproducing at this rate, we have to invent ways to
create vast quantities of food, at the expense of the little guys.
Especially if we continue providing expert medical care (but not birth
control) to other countries.
Then there's the antibiotic resistant stuff we're getting back, from
countries which sell the antibiotics in the drugstores to anyone that
wants it.
Are we supposed to try to live forever? At whose expense? And I find
myself less willing to relinquish life, now that John's had his triple
bypass. Life is as sweet as honey ...
Ah well ... you can't say I didn't warn you.
Anne Kilmer
South florida

"Bob Parcelles,Jr." wrote:
>
> _______________________________________________________
> --- Mark Walker <MWalker at gensym.com> wrote:
> > I would argue that the "problem" described here can
> > in fact be related to
> > too many humans.  First, you wouldn't likely be
> > concerned about or even
> > notice such hunting behavior if there were fewer
> > people (and hence more
> > wilderness).  Second, there would likely be fewer
> > hunters involved.  And
> > third, hunters would be less likely to aggregate in
> > areas that would be
> > unable to handle their predation.  I would argue
> > that even in the cases of
> > the American Bison and the Carrier Pigeon, both were
> > doomed in large part
> > because of population effects.  Stupid population,
> > true.  But too many
> > stupid people is a function of too many people.
> >
> > I say habitat loss is directly related to human
> > population.  It is also
> > related to greed, selfishness, and power mongering.
> > But since these are
> > human characteristics, I don't see how one can
> > comfortably suggest that the
> > world can handle a growing population - especially a
> > growing population that
> > is greedy, selfish, and power hungry.
> >
> > I once heard someone say that the whole population
> > of the United States
> > could comfortably live within the boundaries of
> > Jacksonville, Florida.  I
> > don't know how true this is - although it would be
> > simple to prove/disprove
> > based on simple area calculations.  I suppose if
> > this were possible, there
> > could still be plenty of habitat left for Panthers
> > and other higher order
> > carnivores.
> >
> > Mark Walker.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jean-Michel MAES [mailto:jmmaes at ibw.com.ni]
> > Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 9:41 AM
> > To: mbpi at juno.com; LEPS-L at lists.yale.edu
> > Subject: RE: Overpopulation v. Willful Stupidity
> >
> >
> > Mass hunting still exists.
> >
> > In Rio San JUan, Nicaragua, there is a company that
> > promotes duck hunting.
> > Rich people go there (mostly from US) and shoot
> > ducks. 20 hunters can kill
> > up to 1,000 ducks in a week. They have no problems
> > with CITES as they did
> > not export nothing. In this case the problem is not
> > over population, just
> > crazy way of pleasure of some people.
> >
> > That's not about collecting and nothing to see with
> > butterflies, sorry. I
> > will not do it more.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Jean-Michel MAES
> > MUSEO ENTOMOLOGICO
> > AP 527
> > LEON
> > NICARAGUA
> > tel 505-3116586
> > jmmaes at ibw.com.ni <mailto:jmmaes at ibw.com.ni>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: < mbpi at juno.com <mailto:mbpi at juno.com> >
> > To: < LEPS-L at lists.yale.edu
> > <mailto:LEPS-L at lists.yale.edu> >
> > Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 6:44 AM
> > Subject: Overpopulation v. Willful Stupidity
> >
> >
> > > Keeping things in context, since this IS
> > "supposed" to be a
> > > butterfly-related listserv...
> > >
> > > In my humble opinion (which I'm sure will be shot
> > full of holes by the
> > > rabid archivists with their stockpiled artillery
> > of irrefutable
> > > literature), I don't believe that "overpopulation"
> > is the REAL problem in
> > > the degredation of adequate habitat and the
> > extirpation/extinction of the
> > > biodiversity of local and transient populations.
> > I believe it is the
> > > result of greed, ignorance, a lack of
> > appreciation, poor planning, and a
> > > lack of foresight.
> > >
> > > Witness the Passenger Pigeon:  it was exterminated
> > at a time when the US
> > > was barely populated and the numbers of Passenger
> > Pigeons FAR exceeded
> > > the number of people on the continent!  The North
> > American Bison almost
> > > met the same fate...for equally self-indulgent
> > reasons...and by a
> > > relative "handful" of the population. ( And I
> > won't even go into the
> > > Peregrine Falcon and the Bald Eagle, for fear of
> > re-opening that can of
> > > worms!!!!)
> > >
> > > Flash forward to the late 20th century.  We've
> > come a long way in
> > > "raising our consciousness," but we still adhere
> > to our proscribed mantra
> > > of "self-indulgence..." even more so than in the
> > past because we "know" a
> > > lot more and have easy access to that knowledge.
> > Except NOW, we use that
> > > knowledge to rationalize our way out of sticky
> > situtations that we DON'T
> > > want to be "held accountable" for.
> > >
> > > No, I don't think "overpopulation" is the problem:
> >  I think it is just as
> > > easy for one "collecter" to exterminate a local
> > population, as it was for
> > > a small nation east of the Mississippi to
> > eradicate the entire Passenger
> > > Pigeon population.  This is not a slam-damning
> > soliloquy against
> > > collectors:  I believe there IS a place for
> > RESPONSIBLE collecting for
> > > research...not for self-gratuitious greed.  I
> > think capitalistic
> > > "developers" wreak far more havoc with the
> > biodiversity of indemic
> > > populations than collectors:  and for every "new
> > development" there is a
> > > city-scape or rural environment left a "ghost
> > town" by the scramble to
> > > inhabit these newly invested domains.  That's
> > where the "planners" SHOULD
> > > come into THEIR consciousness of rethinking these
> > abandoned neighborhoods
> > > to INCREASE the biodiversity rather than maintain
> > the sterilization that
> > > drove the dissatisfied tennants out to begin
> > with...  Big cities (and big
> > > corporations) seem to have a vendetta for
> > corraling people into
> > > hermetically sealed, inhumane environments.  It
> > has nothing to do with
> > > "overpopulation," it is simply a lack of regard
> > for anything living...
> > >
> > > I could go on and on (like so many others on this
> > listserv), but I'm
> > > through.
> > >
> > > Go ahead:  throw your stones!!!!
> > >
> > > M.B. Prondzinski
> > > USA
>
> All,
>
> In the future when we restore our environment (at
> tremendous cost) people will be stacked up in vertical
> cities.  But first we must introduce planning and
> un-biased science..but first we must eliminate "greed,
> selfishness, and power mongering".
>
> Excellent comments guys!
>
> Bob Parcelles, Jr.
> Pinellas Park, Fl.
>
> >
>
> =====
> Bob Parcelles, Jr
> Pinellas Park, FL
> RJP Associates <rjpassociates at yahoo.com>
> rjparcelles at yahoo.com
> http://rainforest.care2.com/welcome?w=976131876
> "Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life."- Confucius
>
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