forest overpopulations (no lep, could be jump over).

Mon Jan 29 19:33:09 EST 2001

> Indigenous population co-existed with nature, only so long as they didn't
overpopulate.

I am not shure if that is true. Most families in Nicaragua have a lot of
childrens, up to 10 or 12. I have been in a Mayangna group of indian in NE
rain forersts of Nicaragua. Most of mens have 2 to 4 childrens. So probably
they will not reach overpopulations. I have no idea why they have few
childrens, they have same quantity of time to do them, they live without TV,
night is dark and long.... No idea but if they stay inside the forest
probably they seems to have an auto-control of population.

Sincerely,

Jean-Michel MAES
MUSEO ENTOMOLOGICO
AP 527
LEON
NICARAGUA
tel 505-3116586
jmmaes at ibw.com.ni
www.insectariumvirtual.com/termitero/termitero.htm#nicaragua
www.insectariumvirtual.com/lasmariposasdenicaragua.htm
www-museum.unl.edu/research/entomology/workers/JMaes.htm
www-museum.unl.edu/research/entomology/database2/honduintro.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Gochfeld <gochfeld at EOHSI.RUTGERS.EDU>
To: <mbpi at juno.com>
Cc: <LEPS-L at lists.yale.edu>
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 7:29 AM
Subject: Re: Overpopulation v. Willful Stupidity

> I disagree with the implication that most people don't count. Indigenous
> population co-existed with nature, only so long as they didn't
overpopulate.
> When they did they needed more food (and starved) or more space (and had
wars
> with neighboring tribes).  Their proportional extraction of resources was,
of
> course, much less than in western society today.  Even their personal
> libraries were smaller, and their populations were seriously constrained
by
> high infant mortalities (exceeding 10%), child birth mortality, shorter
> lifespans, and wars.  Don't forget those concommitants of the good old
days.
>
>
> Mike Gochfeld
>
> mbpi at juno.com wrote:
>
> > I'm still not convinced that overpopulation is the problem:  I think
Mike
> > Gochfeld said it all with "Western values" that have been imposed,
> > (whether wanted or not), through the omnipresent media and unthinking,
> > intrepid "adventurers" who feel obligated to press their so-called
> > "sophisticated values" on indiginous populations who have managed to
> > coexist sympatrically with the natural environment for eons of time
until
> > the "western white-bread mentality" was thrown into the mileau.   All it
> > takes is one individual with manufactured "trinkets" at their dispersal
> > to corrupt a complacent society.  (And no, the near demise of the
> > American Bison was NOT a result of "overpopulation:"  it was the result
> > of willful, white supremecy, i.e. ignorance, by a SMALL handful of
> > individuals.)   By the way...the "carrier pigeon" is doing just fine (!)
> >
> > I'd say that the MAJORITY of the "overpopulation" are ineffectual at
> > best.  There are a select FEW individuals who "run the show," regardless
> > of the number of people involved.  It doesn't matter if it is a "family
> > of four" or an entire nation.  To reiterate what Ron Gatrelle posed
> > through Biblical references:  If one were to take the "first family" as
a
> > case in point:  Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel (and "Pinch Me") COULDN'T
> > even get along in their "underpopulated" existence....and the entire
> > Earth was their oyster!  Fable or not, it still can serve as a metaphor.
> >
> > Blame overpopulation if you must...it's as easy a "rationalization" as
> > anything else.  Like I said:  all it takes is ONE thoughtless, elitist
> > individual to disrupt an entire ecosystem.  We live in a world of
EXCESS,
> > however poorly distributed.  While WE suffer the pangs of obesity and
> > other metabolic disorders because of our nutritionally unsound,
> > sedentary, "excessive" life style, we nevertheless try to inflict our
> > cultivated, capitalistic moors on undiscerning others. Third World
> > countries DON'T "need" McDonald's hamburgers or Coca-Cola, much less
> > outboard-motors, anymore than WE do.  They need to "evolve" in their own
> > time and place.  Witness Russia: they are KILLING  themselves as a
nation
> > from "too much, too soon," after years of living in a restrained
> > Communist regime.
> >
> > Does anyone recall how the AIDS epidemic "started?"  As I recall, it was
> > traced back to ONE "sexually indiscriminate" individual who had the
> > finances to "globe trot"...
> >
> > We don't have to "worry" about overpopulation:  we just got rid of
> > 13,000+ Indians by an unforseen natural disaster...and that's "what they
> > get" for breeding like rabbits and refusing to embrace the Western
> > "status quo" (!)  Hmmph!  Not knowing enough about Indian history, I can
> > only speculate that THEIR problems started when the British moved
> > in...like Africa and Australia...and yes, North America.  (And please,
> > Neil, DON'T get your "knickers all in a twist...")  We "smug and smart"
> > Americans" are just as responsible for the current state of world
affairs
> > as the British were in their hey-day... a small fraction of the
> > "overpopulation" if you ask me...
> >
> > Blame it on "overpopulation," but don't assume the responsibility that
> > OUR white-bread elitist heritage has anything to do with it.
> >
> > Get me off this soapbox, PLEASE...  (This is what happens when you turn
> > 50 and are jaded and weary with the world...)
> >
> > Anyone seen any good Leps lately?!
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