York/Rock Hill Butterfly Count?

[Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX]

I agree with Chris's observations. Any biologist and the great majority of
non-biologists are aware that butterflies are not birds so I continue to see
no point in the bird-butterfly analogy. People who are against killing of
anything for whatever reason are welcome to hold their views. but a little
tolerance for other people with different values, ethics and interests in
life would certainly be welcome and refreshing.

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris J. Durden [mailto:drdn at mail.utexas.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 11:44 PM
To: leps-l at lists.yale.edu
Subject: Re: York/Rock Hill Butterfly Count?


You don't realize that birds lay few eggs and Leps lay hundreds or 
thousands? The offspring to adult ratio should be the deciding factor on 
collecting. There is no harm in sampling whole butterflies, but birds 
should only be caught for drawing a blood sample, taking a beak mold (or 
some other non lethal procedure), then released, unless they are new 
species that need to be described.
    Observational science without samples is about as reliable as hearsay 
evidence and is a giant step backwards into the dark ages. Next we shall 
have a movement to prohibit entry into habitat for fear of disturbing the 
species we are told lives there. Personally I think the Emperor has no 
clothes. Let us get back to hands-on science!
...............Chris Durden

At 11:07 PM 5/25/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>Hey, you want to add my e-mail to your diatribe? I am also against
>collecting. If we collected birds the same way people collect butterflies,
>there would soon be no more of them, probably what is happening to
>butterflies.....
>I can't stand people who kill something and don't eat it.
>In an age of digital photography, imaging, all manner of photography, WHY
do
>we need "voucher" specimens.
>If spleens are going to be vent, allow me to vent mine. I was flamed
>severely for my views, so let me flame someone!
>Lay down your nets everyone! let the butterflies fly free!
>Alex Netherton
>The Appalachian Naturalist
>Asheville, NC
>http://www.appalachian-naturalist.com
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ron Gatrelle" <gatrelle at tils-ttr.org>
>To: <Burnetted at aol.com>; "Carolina Leps" <carolinaleps at duke.edu>; "Leps-l"
><Leps-l at lists.yale.edu>
>Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 7:13 PM
>Subject: Re: York/Rock Hill Butterfly Count?
>
>
> > Bill Burnette wrote the following official statement of police-y on
behalf
> > of the Carolina Butterfly Society.
> > My comments follow his.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <Burnetted at aol.com>
> > To: <research at hiltonpond.org>; <carolinaleps at duke.edu>
> > Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 5:32 PM
> > Subject: Re: York/Rock Hill Butterfly Count?
> >
> > SNIP
> > > One point that you should be aware of is that we are an organization
>that
> > > promotes butterfly watching, gardening, and education in much the same
> > way > that the Audubon Society does for birds. (In fact, many of us are
> > Audubon
> > > members, too.) Nets and collecting are not allowed on our counts,
field
> > > trips, and garden walks, though we do welcome photography to help
>confirm
> > > butterfly identity. There are other excellent organizations that would
>be
> > > more appropriate for insect collecting.
> > >
> > > I will be happy to send a membership application to those interested
in
> > > joining, or you can download one from our website. There is also a
> > calendar
> > > of trips and counts posted on our site, and you might want to look at
> > some of
> > > http://www.carolinabutterflysociety.org/
> > >
> > > Dennis Burnette
> > > Membership Chair
> > > Carolina Butterfly Society
> > > burnetted at aol.com
> >
> >
> > I find the above extremely offensive, bigoted, and ignorant. As a
>collector
> > I am not welcome (ALLOWED) to ride on this bus and must find my place at
> > the other water fountain. The Lepidopterists Society, Southern
> > Lepidopterists Society, Ohio, and all others are fully "integrated" with
> > arms wide open to all - watchers, collectors, students, professionals,
>etc.
> > etc.  The Carolina Society (does it have IRS 501 (c) 3 public status to
> > loose) is, in the fine southern tradition of the Klan, evidently still
> > fully segregated and proud of it.
> >
> > If I came and brought my net are you going to have me arrested? How are
>you
> > going to not ALLOW me this legal activity and right?  Are you going to
>call
> > out the National Guard and stand on the School House steps? I would also
> > think that the property owner of a given area or sponsor (in this case
> > Hilton Pond Center for Piedmont Natural History) would have the say-so
on
> > who, what, when, and where.
> >
> > Strange. The NC DNR, US F&W, Forest Service have all paid me to collect
> > (voucher) specimens for them and do field surveys - but with you I  am
not
> > ALLOWED? You all like to watch all the Appalachian Crescents (Phyciodes
> > batesii maconensis),  Cullasaja Fritillaries (Speyeria aphrodite
> > cullasaja),  Poanes aaroni minimus, Hesperia attalus nigresens, and
>Euphyes
> > bimacula arbogasti that I discovered IN THE CAROLINAS and wrote the
> > scientific papers on.   But I am not ALLOWED?  You all liked the New NC
> > state record I just added for Gorgone Checkerspot (Chlosyne gorgone),
but
>I
> > am not ALLOWED?  My recent NC find of Gray Comma (Polygopnia progne),
New
> > SC record for Oak Hairstreak and on and on - But I am not ALLOWED.
> >
> > Are you so unaware that you don't know that when you say "collectors"
you
> > are  not just using a "term." -- you are insulting someone's mom or dad
or
> > kid?  A real live human being with feelings and emotions and worth? I am
a
> > Christian pastor by profession, and the foremost lepidopterist in SC,
and
> > I'm the evil enemy and NOT ALLOWED?
> >
> > Rev. Ronald Gatrelle
> > President, The International Lepidopterist Survey
> > Research Associate Florida Department of Agriculture
> >         and Florida State Collection of Arthropods
> > Former Executive Council Member, The Lepidopterists' Society
> > Past President Southern Lepidopterists' Society
> > Former Editor Southern Lepidopterists Society
> > Lepidopterists of 45+ years and author of numerous
> >            scientific papers.
> >
> > PS  Shortly after signing up to the carolina-leps chat group, one of
your
> > members emailed me and told me I bertter lay low as many in this group
>were
> > militantly anti-collecting and COLLECTORS.  I decided to not receive
that
> > bad report and just go with the flow.  Until this post I had found
>everyone
> > to be very nice and open minded. I refuse to believe that the mind set
of
> > the rank and file members of the Carolina Butterfly Club is as
prejudiced
> > as that of its leadership apparently is.
> >
>
>
>
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