Fwd: Re: gene pool and releases

[Chris J. Durden]

>Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 19:06:17 -0500
>To: patfoley at csus.edu
>From: "Chris J. Durden" <drdn at mail.utexas.edu>
>Subject: Re: gene pool and releases
>
>At 08:42 AM 6/17/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>
>
>>Humans were doing very well in Tierra del Fuego until they were wiped out by
>>disease brought from Europe. Example like this numerous in the one 
>>species we know
>>at all well, humans.
>
>    And humans were doing very well on the Labrador Coast until the 
> missionaries brought in clothing that had been collected from victims of 
> the WWI flu epidemic in Europe. Patrick, would you care to discuss the 
> taxonomy of the Tierra del Fuegians or of the First Nation on the 
> Labrador Coast? I certainly would not, being neither an anthropoid 
> taxonomist nor a physical anthropologist. I do not think the cases are 
> similar to the hypthetical case of monarch introductions.
>
>
>>I would rather people do what they please, but when it the potential to cause
>>problems
>
>That is an opinion of a few, not shared by most lepidopterists I have 
>spoken with.
>
>>for others (including the butterflies and people who want to understand
>>the nature of butterflies), the responsible choice
>
>I have not seen evidence that would warrant a ban on releases.
>
>>  does not seem to be nonlocal
>>releases. If people are desperate for butterflies at their weddings, let 
>>them raise
>>them locally. Give the neighborhood children a small home industry.
>
>Fine - but that is quite another issue!
>
>
>> >
>> >     The known red admiral in North America 38 million years ago (late
>> > Eocene, long, long before *Australopithecus*) was very close (in the same
>> > lineage) to *Vanessa indica*). The genus was probably well established in
>> > the Cretaceous along with the Snout Butterflies. *V. indica*, *V.
>> > atalanta*, *V. cardui* and others have been hopping between continents 
>> ever
>> > since. The only wild hybrid I am familiar with are those between *V.
>> > atalanta rubria* and *V. annabella* in California. Neither of them seem to
>> > be in any immediate danger of being genetically swamped by the other
>> > ..........Chris Durden
>>
>>I was joking about Australopithecus wedding butterflies. I am not joking 
>>about the
>>evolution of local adaptations.
>
>You must be joking. I know on no locally adapted species of *Vanessa*. 
>They are all weed feeders dependant upon rapid population growth in 
>temporarily favorable habitat, followed by dispersal and repopulation of 
>areas that were depopulated by buildup of parasites and pathogens 
>following prior local overpopulation.
>
>>There are many evolutionary biologists (Ernst Mayr,
>>Stephen Gould, Alan Templeton) who believe that geopgraphic isolation is 
>>essential
>>for whatever magic is needed to produce new species.
>
>There are many evolutionary biologists who do not!
>
>>  I tend more to the school of
>>Lande, Charlesworth, Barton, Endler, MJD White and Charles Darwin, who 
>>would argue,
>>to one extent or another, that absolute reproductive isolation is not 
>>critical,
>>that natural selection can overwhelm the inflow of poorly co-adapted genes.
>
>I agree wholeheartedly!
>
>
>>Having given you some theoretical support, I have to remind us all how
>>controversial this area is. Most paleontologists appear to agree with Gould.
>
>I know a number who do not!
>
>>I do
>>not think that we can flippantly state that there are no problems here.
>
>Some can say they think there are problems. Others can say they think 
>there are no problems. There is certainly far less evidence available on 
>this argument than there is on the case for "global warming" and look at 
>the legal responses on that. I think there is no justification for banning 
>the monarch releases.
>
>>Has anyone seen a paper on the evolution of Vanessa, giving some 
>>explanation for
>>the rise of  V. annabella and V. virginiensis?
>
>I am familiar with the specimen (made drawings of it in 1962) and the 
>earlier paper by F. M. Brown.
>
>>Florissant Butterflies by Emmel,
>>Minno and Drummond puts Vanessa amerindica (apparently related to 
>>Eurasian Vanessa
>>indica )at 35MYA.
>
>That is a tenuous round up of 3 million years from the isotopic date of 
>the Thirtynine Mile Volcanic Series lava flow that blocked the Florissant 
>Basin and allowed the lake to form and collect the ash beds (paper 
>shales). I doubt if more than scores of years elapsed between the lava 
>emplacement  (38 MA) and sedimentation of the butterfly-producing level.
>
>>When did annabella and virginiensis arise and how? Does anyone
>>have any good references for fossil or molecular studies that might help?
>
>I know of none. ....................Chris Durden
>
>
>>Patrick Foley
>>patfoley at csus.edu
>>
>> >



 
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