Count Tradition???

[Michael Gochfeld]

Ron's remarks were too abstruse for me. My comments and questions are in 
CAPS (SOME READERS MAY INTERPRET THIS AS "YELLING" WHICH IS NOT 
INTENDED). 

Ron wrote: 
"Of course Alex's remarks were not "targeted" at the Brodkins. They were
targeted to an issue, a cultural practice, a tradition that often in 
many instances is very lean on scientific substance.  I think Alex, like 
myself, agrees with the rational approach and spirit of Hank and 
Priscilla. I also think that Alex, like myself, sees Hank and Priscilla 
as the exception rather than the rule."

WHEN THE XERCES SOCIETY STARTED THE COUNTS, WERE THEY INTENDED TO BE 
"SCIENTIFIC"??  THAT DEPENDS ON HOW NARROWLY ONE DEFINES SCIENTIFIC. IF 
THEY ARE INTENDED TO  EXPERIMENTALLY MANIPULATE A PHENOMENON, THEN NO. 
BUT IN TERMS OF PROVIDING DATA IN A REASONABLY SYSTEMATIC WAY, THEN THEY 
SUCCEED, RECOGNIZING THAT ALL DATA----EVEN DATA OBTAINED EXPERIMENTALLY 
AT HIGH PRICE----HAS ERROR.  THERE IS A WHOLE LITERAT5URE OF ERROR 
MEASUREMENT, ESTIMATION, AND MODELING IN THE FIELDS OF STATISTICS AND 
BIOSTATISTICS.  FORTUNATELY IT IS TOO TECHNICAL FOR ME TO READ OR I 
WOULD PROBABLY BORE MOST READERS WITH IT. 

BUT THE UPSHOT IS THAT WE BENEFIT FROM MANY KINDS OF DATA THAT IS NOT 
(AND CAN'T BE) ERROR FREE. 
In balance I must say that "this is how it works" with some and in some
quarters - and is how it should work. But here in the eastern US?  I 
have seen a lot more "our way or the highway" than reason and a spirit 
of cooperation.

THIS IS TOO SUBTLE FOR ME, RON.  I GUESS IT DOESN'T REFER TO BUTTERFLY 
FLOWER PLANTINGS ALONG HIGHWAYS---OR DOES IT. 

 This "bad attitude" and elitism has come from someplace.
IS BAD ATTITUDE AN INEVITABLE CONSEQUENCE OF ELITISM? 

THIS DISCUSSION BEGAN NEARLY A CENTURY AGO WITH THE FIRST AUDUBON 
SOCIETY CHRISTMAS BIRD COUNTS. THERE ARE NUMEROUS PAPERS THAT ATTEMPT TO 
MAKE "SCIENTIFIC" USE OUT OF THE CBC DATA AND NUMEROUS CRITICISMS OF THE 
DATA QUALITY, ARGUING THAT THE COUNTS ARE NOT SCIENTIFIC.  NONETHELESS, 
RATHER ELEGANT MAPS HAVE BEEN PRODUCED SHOWING THE WINTER DISTRIBUTION 
OF BIRDS WHICH (DESPITE THE ABUNDANT OPPORTUNITY FOR ERROR IN OVER 1000 
CENSUSES OF ABOUT 500 SPECIES), THE MAPS AND PLOTS MAKE SENSE. 

I ENCOURAGED NABA TO DROP THE 15 MILE CIRCLE, ARGUING THAT BUTTERFLIES 
AREN'T BIRDS (EVEN THOUGH MANY BUTTERFLY COUNTERS ARE ALSO BIRD 
COUNTERS). I LOST, BUT STILL THINK THAT IT WOULD BE MORE PRODUCTIVE TO 
TARGET SPECIFIC HABITATS OF MORE MANAGEABLE SIZE AND COUNT THEM MORE 
CONSISTENTLY.  BUT, I ALSO AM COMPILER ON THREE 4JC COUNTS, SO I DON'T 
PREACH WHAT I PRACTICE OR VICE VERSA. 

mike gochfeld
 

 
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