Grkovich, Alex agrkovich at tmpeng.com
Mon Apr 8 08:12:56 EDT 2002

Apparently, "free speech" is not an important ideal at MassLeps...

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Grkovich, Alex 
> Sent:	Monday, April 08, 2002 7:51 AM
> To:	'Earle Baldwin'
> Cc:	'marj at mrines.com'; 'BrianRFG at aol.com'; 'mchampag at foxboro.com'
> Subject:	RE: Re: APOLOGY ETC.
> Earle,
> Actually, I was going to post a public apology to you copied to the
> "Group". I was most curious as to what sort of responses I would receive
> from the "Group".
> I didn't realize when I wrote the "Group" that I was likening you with an
> 8 year old. That was not my intention. I was actually pointing my finger
> at the "Leaders". They are responsible if someone such as yourself, who is
> an excellent "birder", does not know something as elementary as elementary
> to butterfly study as this subject. You are not expected to know such
> things. Just as I wrote previously that while having enough knowledge
> about birds to "be dangerous", I am not an Ornithologist.
> Earle, you are a gentleman, and I am truly sorry that I appeared to insult
> you this way. Believe me, it was not my intention. It did not occur to me
> that I had until someone pointed this out to me. Which is why, our words
> always have to be very carefully measured.
> Still, you made some sort of reference to me in your first response post
> of me as a "collector". Why was this? Why does it bother you and other so
> much that I "collect". You also were rather demeaning. Earle,
> Lepidopterists collect. We always have. And my words to the "Group" are
> only a reflection of some of the bias I have felt from the "Group". You
> would be interested in knowing that the Butterfly Association to the south
> of you does not have an official "anti-collecting" bias. This type of bias
> is slowly disappearing across the country. Most groups are too smart to
> discourage Lepidopterists from participating. My words in that regard
> stand: "Where are the Lepidopterists"? Mr. Cassie is hardly a "butterfly
> expert"; yet he pretends to be, acts the part. I saw, over the course of a
> year on the list, too many examples of this. 
> You and Marj think the "Group" will benefit from excluding someone like
> me? You are moving farther toward censorship; nothing more than this. In a
> way, the "Group" has died this morning, free speech has died. While I
> certainly need reflection, so do the Leaders of the "Group". Me, in a way,
> it's a relief. And, there are other p[laces to go to; I already found them
> which is why I posted so little over the past half-year or so.
> Mr. Cassie's "anti-collecting agenda", which he appears to push onto
> everyone, is little more than an assault on the Civil Rights of people
> like myself. And an assault that has nothing whatsoever to do with
> scientific fact. And first, it's my net that goes; what next? My hunting
> license? My fishing rod? My gun, perhaps? Where does it end, Earle? Will I
> someday need a "Permit" to go to the supermarket? To the next town? To the
> toilet? Do we finally become a sterile people who are forbidden to touch
> anything? To walk anywhere? Why don't you think about that? All these
> women who love "walks": Do they have husbands who hunt and fish? How will
> THEY feel when their men can no longer do what they love? Watch out,
> Earle; this is a dangerous agenda.
> Earle, YOU are the ones that need reflection when you are biased (without
> examination) toward a person like me. And finally, without collecting, how
> do you identify? How do you study? You can't Earle. Photos are almost
> useless, except to show-off "beautiful pictures" of "beautiful
> butterflies". 
> Again, Earle, my deepest apology to you. I need a measure of growth. But
> so do every one of you who has been biased toward me, and especially those
> who might be "cheering" because I am "gone". I apologized a number of
> times to Cassie last year, tried to make him understand my position with
> respect to "collecting". He doesn't seem to care, doesn't wish to listen.
> He has an agenda. And he is also not even a Lepidopterist, but a birder.
> You'll agree if you think about it, there's something wrong with that.
> I hope we do meet sometime. I'm sure we will.
> Alex 
> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Earle Baldwin [SMTP:earlebaldwin at hotmail.com]
> Sent:	Saturday, April 06, 2002 12:46 AM
> To:	agrkovich at tmpeng.com
> Subject:	Fwd: Re: [MassLep] changes to the list
> It is unfortunate that you have not seen the responses to Marj blocking
> you from the list. You really need to look in the mirror. It is seldom a
> person get's a true wake up call. Take this opportunity for a little
> growth. Your sarcasm and dull wit betray you. And thank you. The kindness
> of others in the wake of your delusional conduct has been refreshing. In
> the attached posting I mean what I say. I hope you have the pleasure of
> meeting me one day. I have your words deeply imprinted within. God be with
> you. 
> ...reexamine all you have been told at school or church or in any book,
> dismiss what insults your own soul... Walt Whitman
> >From: Earle Baldwin 
> >Reply-To: earlebaldwin at hotmail.com 
> >To: marj at mrines.com, MassLep at topica.com 
> >Subject: Re: [MassLep] changes to the list 
> >Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 00:29:05 -0500 
> > 
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