Subject: RE: lepidopterists have anything to learn from ... birders ?

Ron Gatrelle gatrelle at
Mon Apr 8 16:27:16 EDT 2002

----- Original Message -----
From: "Barb Beck" <barb at>
Yale. Edu" <leps-l at>
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 3:10 PM
Subject: Subject: RE: lepidopterists have anything to learn from ...
birders ?

> Well Mike I do not know about the lepidopterists but I am sure the
> watchers following Glassberg could learn a heqq of a lot from birders.  A
> large number of birdwatchers are not lapping up the anti-scientific,
> pseudoscientific statements expressed by the head of NABA.  Birders have
> several scientifically responsible organizations.

    I want to thank you on behalf of a lot of people - both birders and
lepsters.  I have snipped the rest of the post as everyone should already
have it.   Your post leads to an apology from me to all serious birders for
guilt by association.   Barb, your post means a lot to countless
Lepidopterists the world over - professional and amaeteur alike.   Just as
butterfly poachers have given _all_ collectors a bad image,  those few
extremists who have given the impression of birding as a narrow, over
simplified, anti-interaction thing and have thus been telling lepsters they
too need to have a simplified & hands off methodology toward butterflies
and moths, has left a bad taste in many Lepidopterists minds.
Fortunately, those who are _both_ serious birders and butterflyers, like
yourself, are the only ones who can set the record straight.  Thanks for
speaking so matter-of-factly about what real birders feel, think, and do.
    I have had a couple of personal posts from well known birders letting
me known that the hypersensitive, oversimplified,  type of lepsters are
probably not very good birders either.
    It is also one thing for various of us to disagree about any number of
things - like Mike and I on what he considers micro-management (and I
necessary availability) of common names.   These are areas where we can
express our opinions, vent our passions, and end up agreeing to disagree.
But political agendaism and falsification of information to the vulnerable
is something all of us should cry out against.

Again, thanks.  It took courage to open up like this.

Ron Gatrelle
TILS president
Charleston, SC - USA


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