P.s hybrid9 at yahoo.com
Fri Apr 12 13:59:55 EDT 2002

On 12 Apr 2002 04:58:47 -0700, neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk (Neil Jones)

>I think to be fair to Mary Beth, Petter, there are possibly a few things that
>of which you are unaware. 
>Firstly you are posting to sci.bio.entomology.lepidoptera (SBEL) It is a 
>rather unusual newsgroup in that it is "gated" to a list. That is to say that
>everything  sent to SBEL is sent to a mailing list called Leps-L
>and everything on LEPS-L gets sent to SBEL. You may still be able to access 
>some of the stuff I am referring to from your newserver.

Thanks, yes, it confused me when the posts showed up in my inbox as

>Secondly we have recently been plagued with hoaxes.
>We had someone posting a diatribe attacking butterfly collectors.
>This was signed with a name that used a reference to British 
>slang which the Americans didn't understand.

Whats new?:), sorry, couldnt resist...

>After a heated discussion I had to explain to everyone that they were being
>provoked by a joker.
>Then there was a woman asking for advice on childcare which was also a weird
>hoax. We're pretty sure of that. Why "on pluto" we do not know!

neither do I, but my guess is that she probably thought that since you
are specialists on butterflies, you know everything about puppets,
cocoons, everything about wrapping a baby, or how to protect something
vulnerable, and, since she chose butterflies of all possible
wrappings, most probably is because she connects beauty with
it...Beauty and protection. And from there, if you consider the
general publics attitude towards butterflies, not only as "insects",
but as symbols of beauty and freedom, as in the transforming, it is to
be expected that some people project into the butterflycollector the
evil doctor...In a way it signifies the split between nature/man,
where science represent the clinical deconstruction of nature as a
"background", a sort stage only where the human drama enfolds. You are
a scientist, revealing all sorts of facts about your field of study,
that if taken into account and been allowed to influence the common
image of the butterfly symbolism, the feelings among a lot of people
would change radically I think...And new kinds of
communicationpatterns would come also, if allowed to. Per.ex. I dont
know what comes out of my sudden appearance here. You are all helping
me now in developing the concept, actualizing it in fact, right now...
Though in essence it is about interacting with nature, of primarily on
a personal level to bridge nature/culture and interact, enter the
unexpected so to say...Which it will be, I guess it will be pretty
 I have already been given a lot of very valuable facts to me, best
time of day, indoors, where to look for them locally, what kind of
bait,etc. Very nice of you all, thanks, hope I can stay here a little
while...It would be nice if I could show documentation, photos here
when done as well, science and some art arent antithetic as some
Just wandering, what is the best way to find a local breeder or
butterflyhouse in Estonia, botanical garden?

>Then there was a Nigerian trying to get our bank account details to swindle 

Sorry to say, but that appears even here in Holland, regularly mails
are coming in with that sort of stuff. Like I have a zillion dollars
in a bank and I only need your signature or bancaccount so I can
transfer and you be rich rich rich....Its dayly life unfortunately,

>It is also not unknown for us to have someone on the list who is clearly 
>showing some of the symptoms of a mental illness.

Well, I certainly do, it just depends what kind of mental illness one
suffer from I guess. If you think of it, we are all in our own trance
in a way...We can not step out of our own perception, and in that
sense a certain total enclosure are at work...I stop:) But seriously,
I do understand. I assume a certain professional ethic is necessary,
and if it gets too muddled, like I am almost doing now..., then of
>So you can see people are very used to hoaxes and tend to believe that 
>anything strange is a hoax.

Yes, it is much a question of language and cultural conditioning as
well. I per.ex are used to encounter very strange people a lot, so I
am used to it, and accordingly dont react very much to it...
>Your being Norwegian may explain things.

Absolutely:), we are renown I guess for our bluntness...sorry.

 American and British people
>have a different cultural attitude towards nudity. I am suffering myself  at 
>the moment because Americans have a different and much more old-fashioned 
>attitude towards religion than we British (and for that matter most western 
>Europeans ) do.

That is a vast area you opened up to now, I hope you dont mind if I
dont go into it. I feel a strong need for religious rest right now,
 both on a personal level and globally...
>Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.butterflyguy.com/
>"At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the
>butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog
>National Nature Reserve
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