Do Monarchs need Mexican forests?

Paul Cherubini monarch at
Fri Apr 19 19:05:05 EDT 2002

Pat wrote:

> Jim, I also am dubious about Brower's figures, but I can't 
> find out how he calculated them except hearsay.
> Does anyone have a pointer to a Brower paper which clears this up.

Pat, here is the paper that Brower is preparing:

> It is well established that many corporations have lied,
> cheated and stolen using bogus science. Consider the tobacco industry
> alone, but there are plenty of examples. Academic fraud occurs but is
> relatively rare.  Any honest person who has worked for
> industry (as I have) knows how much pressure there is to fudge.
> Are you disagreeing with me from principle or are you being paid to do
> so? 

Pat, I guess we disagree about what constitutes academic dishonesty. When
a scientist slants or distorts data or the interpretation of data in a way that 
overstates a human health or environmental concern, I consider it academic 
dishonesty. However, you apparently feel that if a scientist slants or distorts
in order to draw attention to an environmental concern, then it should be
considered merely exaggerating or overstating the concern.
For example, in regard to Paul Ehrlich's predictions of ecosystem
collapse and global famine during the 80's and 90's you wrote:

"Paul Ehrlich does exaggerate, but almost all of the dangers he identifies are
real, do need attention, and have gotten attention precisely because of
doomsayers like him."

Ehrlich: (considered merely exaggerating)

 -  "The battle to feed all of humanity is over. In the 1970s and
  1980s hundreds of millions of people will starve to death in spite
  of any crash programs embarked upon now. . America's vast
  agricultural surpluses are gone."

-  America in 1984 would have food shortages so severe that steak
  would be $12 a pound, the U.S. unemployment rate would be 27
  percent, and India would be an anarchy because of nationwide
  food riots.

-  "a minimum of ten million people, most of them children,
  will starve to death during each year of the 1970s. But this is a
  mere handful compared to the numbers that will be starving
  before the end of the century"

 -  "Before 1985, mankind will enter a genuine age of scarcity .
  in which the accessible supplies of 13 key minerals will be
  facing depletion."

Tobacco executive (considered lying or using bogus science)

- "I do not believe that nicotine is addictive"


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