Museum Collection + "I guess I am a war crinimal!"

Fri Feb 8 11:47:34 EST 2002

Hi Bob. The perspectives and debates that we have on this topic in the
lepidoptera world is just one example of such debates on a wider plane.
Here are some quick thoughts from my view of the world around me:
- people who object to the killing of non-endangered plants and animals
clearly do so from philosophical/moral/ethical grounds. It is a complete
waste of time to try to use facts or numbers or science or logical reasoning
to counter such views; altho it can be an entertaining way to spend some
time :-)and unfortunately it is necessary to go through the motions of
countering the arguments, because if we do not, they will get their way with
the lawmakers
- some people cannot or do not want to understand the fundamental biological
differences between different groups of organisms such as birds,
butterflies, salamanders, bears. They persistently use inappropriate
analogies to bolster their philosophical arguments
- anti-collectors/anti-comsumptive use people are often very adept at
conjuring up implausible "bad things that may happen" as an argument in
their tool kit to convince others that they are right and the rest of the
world should live as they chose to live
- the big decisions are made in society on the basis of politics, perceived
social acceptability, emotion, ideology etc. They may or may not involve the
use of data or any kind of science from the numerous sciences that we have
created. Data and various sciences will continue to be used by both/all
camps in arriving at a social decision and they will all have science on
their side.  A good ploy in dragging out the decision making process is to
attack the other person's science, thus avoiding the real human issues that
the decision should be addressing
- activists of all leanings will continue to try to get the rest of us to
fall in line with their view of the world. That is not paranoia, that is a
fundamental fact of people living in societies. Thankfully those of us who
live in democratic societies can continue to be part of the necessary
debates that normally result in grey solutions to what the extemists view as
black or white issues.  

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Parcelles,Jr. [mailto:rjparcelles at yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 8:14 AM
To: Leps-List; Newsletter Nature Potpourri
Subject: Museum Collection + "I guess I am a war crinimal!"

Greetings: 

This is a cross-post from PARC list and might denonstrate that
entomologists, particularly lepidopterists, are not the only ones
with this problem. please help him out directly. Critical OR NEGATIVE
comments SHOULD NOT be sent TO HIM! He did not post to either of
these 2 groups. help him if you can. Use him for discussion on these
2 lists.

I fear that in our zealousness to recruit people to become
environmentalists we are more and more getting people wh0 are anti
all consumptive uses of living or otherwise resources on this planet.
The need for scientists (true amateur as well as pro) to collect is
so obvious it defies imagination for it to be such a hot topic!

Bob Parcelles, Jr.
Having legally collected birds, mammals, fish, herps and all types of
invertebrates for the purpose of science and environmental education.
I also have have "collected" over 125,ooo photographic images with
over 20,000 having been published.

I guess I am a war crinimal!
**********************************************************************
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 23:21:15 -0600 

Reply-to: Malcolm McCallum <mmccallu at MAIL.ASTATE.EDU> 

From: "Malcolm McCallum" <mmccallu at MAIL.ASTATE.EDU> 
Subject: museum collection 

To: PARC at LISTSERV.UGA.EDU 

I am having an ongoing debate with a group of students and faculty in
my department.  Our university runs a herpetology 
museum of about 26,000 specimens representing the largest 
collection of amphibians and reptiles from ARkansas.  Through 
monitoring and field work animals are deposited fairly 
frequently by us and herpetologists statewide.  Within our 
department there are a number of individuals who argue the 
importance of prudent voucher numbers and sampling targeting 
our herpetology group.  They contend that we over collect.  
THis, however, is far from the truth.  We do collect small 
samples (5-10 animals) from large populations (aparent 
hundreds to thousands of individuals in the immediate area like 
cricket frogs), or 1-2 from small ones (apparent hundreds 
in the immediate area stuff like wood frogs), and do not 
collect from populations that are very limited (stuff like 
hellbenders, collard lizards, alligator snapping turtles that 
have limited ranges and populations as low as 50 in 
places).  The parties argue that these collections are useless, 
contending that long range data that could be gathered from 
the specimens does not show cause-effect and is therefore 
conjecture and unneeded.  
WHile they speak of prudent sampling, they are actually 
against any type of collecting.. as is apparent by their 
arguments (most of which have be left out for brevity).  I think 
the fact that they work on animals such as raptors and rare 
birds has put blinders on them. 

So my question is... How do I argue this point further.  I 
am getting sincerely tired of having to defend the 
methodologies and standards we use.  In fact, when we do kill we 
put them to sleep with sodium pent first!  I am getting very 
frustrated with the continual arguments that are thrown my 
way by people who refuse to take off their blinders and 
examine the situation as it really stands.  I think comparing 
a hawk population to a population of salamanders is no 
fairer than standardizing mosquito collections in the swamp 
based on those for salamanders.  They are apples and oranges.  
Any comments, pro or con would be appreciated. 

Malcolm McCallum
P.O. Box 847 
Environmental Sciences Ph.D. Program
State University, AR  72467
1-870-972-3177
mmccallu at astate.edu
"If a cluttered desk signs a cluttered mind, Of
  what, then, is an empty desk a sign? -Albert Einstein."

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=====
Bob Parcelles, Jr
Pinellas Park, FL
RJP Associates, C2M-BWPTi
rjparcelles at yahoo.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/naturepotpourri
"Change your thoughts and you change your world."
- Norman Vincent Peale

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