Endangered species act

Mike Soukup mikayak3 at home.net
Fri Feb 8 16:54:43 EST 2002


This may be a little political - and I apologize in advance to all!!!

Actually, John, to me, yes it does.  That is the problem as I see it.  Everybody
in these agencies know who the bad apples are - but they protect thier own.
And, in my book - if you aren't part of the solution - you are part of the
problem.  and, also, in my opinion, doing nothing in the face of evil is almost
as bad as performing the deed itself.  So, yes, I stick to my statement - they
are thugs with guns.

    Let's turn it around.  If you accidentally killed an endangered specie - or
found one on your property - would you call the USFW.  And, no, not a friend,
contact, or friend of a friend - just an anonymous call to the USFW office.  I
doubt it.  And, if you did, you'd be foolish.  Why?  Because the full weight of
the Federal Govt. is going to be all over you.  To think that they would be
fair, even-handed, and understanding is naive at best.

    On top of that, I believe that at least half of what they are chartered to
do is illegal, immoral, and unconstitutional.

The spanking thing don't make it - you probably deserved it!!!  I know I did!!!



John Shuey wrote:

> This argument doesn't cut it - I can easily get documentation that
> individuals in every enforcement agency in the US has overstepped their
> bounds.  That's not the point.  I don't go around calling my local police
> department a "bunch of thugs" because of the rogue actions of one or two
> cops - do I?  That would indeed be stupid.  But then - that's what you are
> doing.
>
> So I guess......
>
> I'd better stop.
>
> John
>
> (Who was spanked once in grade school unjustly - so every ^&^&$% *#$@#
> teacher I've ever met is a thug - obviously)
>
> > To me, it is a matter of "perspective".  Our forefathers set up
> > our judicial
> > system, and indeed our entire government under the premise that
> > it was more
> > important to protect the rights of an individual - and allow SOME
> > guilty people
> > to slip thru the cracks and go free- rather than accidentally
> > destroying some
> > innocent people while catching ALL of the guilty.   To me, if
> > even one person is
> > unjustly raided, tried, and forced to spend his life savings to
> > defend himself
> > - without being reimbursed for his time and trouble - and
> > apologized to -  the
> > system is broken.  I can easily get documentation of USF&W
> > overzealousness in
> > enforcing laws.  Can you tell me no innocent individual has been
> > harmed by thier
> > actions?  I doubt it.
> >
> >     You obviously feel that "some innocents" must be sacrificed
> > for the good of
> > all.
> >
> > I disagree strongly.
> >
> > John Shuey wrote:
> >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 8 Feb 2002, Mike Soukup wrote:
> > > > > With due respect to Jere, and, as a person who has spent
> > much time "on
> > > > > the shady side of the law", I would recommend almost
> > nothing he says.
> > > > > If you accidentally kill an endangered specie in the USA, keep your
> > > > > mouth shut, don't tell anybody, and mis-label your specimen!!!  Our
> > > > > USF&W are NOT nice, understanding people.  They are thugs
> > with guns and
> > > > > power and they like to use it.
> > > >
> > > > I'm sorry to hear that, and even more saddened by the fact that your
> > > > advise is probably more reliable than mine!
> > > >
> > > > BTW in Finland endangered != protected by law. Here 'endangered'
> > > > is just a
> > > > label for species that need special attention for some reason
> > and while
> > > > all protected species are endangered, most endangered species are not
> > > > protected. I think most lepidopterologists (in all senses of the word)
> > > > here agree with me if a claim that the protected special have been
> > > > selected in a more-or-less random way.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > You know - this is BULL SH&&%T.
> > >
> > > I work with F&WS folks on a daily basis - they are, by and
> > large, a highly
> > > dedicated group of people who care about conservation and the
> > environment -
> > > doing the best they can to leave a legacy within the confines of an
> > > overbearing bureaucracy.
> > >
> > > As to the innocents who have been visited by F&WS law enforcement - I
> > > personally know three such people.  All of them had extensive
> > dealings with
> > > folks who have pleaded guilty to violations of the Endangered
> > Species Act or
> > > the Lacy Act.  All three had many hundreds of specimens that
> > were "illegal",
> > > and that were at least temporarily confiscated while legal
> > cases were made
> > > against others (I saw one such stash of "evidence" temporarily
> > stored at a
> > > museum).  At least one of these friends had their specimens returned to
> > > them - grand fathered into legality (and I don't know about the
> > others but I
> > > assume that they have their specimens back as well).
> > >
> > > Granted, I may seem unpatriotic to some folks of this list for
> > defending our
> > > government (as you know, others have fought and died so that we
> > can enjoy
> > > the right to bitch about our government).  But to negatively categorize
> > > every person who works for F&WS as "thugs with guns and power"
> > demonstrates
> > > a lethal combination of both ignorance and stupidity that is difficult
> > > tolerate.
> > >
> > > Even for a liberal like me.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > > John A. Shuey
> > > Director of Conservation Science
> > > Indiana Office of The Nature Conservancy
> > > 1505 N Delaware Street, Indianapolis, IN 46202
> > > 317.951.8818
> > >
> > >
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> > >
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> > >
> > >    http://www.peabody.yale.edu/other/lepsl
> > >
> >


 
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