Neil Jones' responses

Guy Van de Poel & A. Kalus Guy_VdP at
Mon Jan 7 17:28:53 EST 2002

As usual, _very_ well said, Anne.
And if anyone doubts if conservation is needed, please come and visit
Flanders, where only about 10% of the butterflies still occur that were
there a 100 years ago.

And a happy new year to all of you.


----- Original Message -----
From: Anne Kilmer <viceroy at GATE.NET>
To: <drdn at>
Cc: <leps-l at>
Sent: maandag 7 januari 2002 15:30
Subject: Re: Neil Jones' responses

> Chris J. Durden wrote:
> > Thank you Felix Sperling for a response to Neil Jones, that I think a
> > lot of the rest of us will agree with. I cherish both virgin old-growth
> > vegetation and virgin successional vegetation, they are home to
> > different sets of equally valuable animal species. There is just more
> > diversity in the successional species set. Neither Rush nor Neil seem
> > right on this one.
> > .................Chris Durden
> >
> >
> Neil is in great distress, watching the little beautiful places around
> him die, replaced with urban and suburban squalor, non-native weeds
> (Buddleja, for godsake) that have muscled their way in and crowded out
> the choice little natives. He is watching the loss of some species,
> replaced by others more common, more easily supported by a wholesale
> environment.
> I, too, am in distress. I am watching all this happen in Ireland, as
> well as in South Florida, and there is no euphoric that will effectively
> suppress my horror, pain, rage and guilt. I am equally distressed at the
> huge supermarket that has been built in Westport, Mayo, Ireland,
> replacing my favorite little hardware stores, one of which was good on
> tools; the other paint, and lessons on how to use the tools.
> The fellow who smokes his own salmon is hanging on by an eyelash, he's
> only there sometimes, in his tiny shop, and it's easier to buy my smoked
> salmon from the supermarket, so I do that. This is a sin and I do it
> knowingly, just as I drop the jam jar into the trash instead of rinsing
> it and putting it into the recycling. It is a sin, and I am sorry for it.
> It is one thing to sin secretly and to repent. It is another to claim
> that sin is a virtuous act, and to recommend it to the innocent who come
> asking.
> There is, we are promised, a special hell for people who falsify
> results, lead people astray, poison the babies' milk with formaldehyde
> and claim it's a health benefit ...
>   It is not the province of this list to assign people, whether
> subscribing to this list or not, to that special hell. But please,
> understand our pain when we see someone weighing short-term personal
> gain against long-term general good ...
> There was a fellow a while ago, on this list, who explained that we are
> not really losing species for, although some go extinct, we are
> continually creating more species ... yes, folks, all those special dogs
> and cats and sheep can make up to us for the flower fly and the snail
> darter. (Neil didn't like him, either, as I recall.)
> The leopard does not change his spots nor the Ethiopian his skin. Paul
> Cherubini will continue to tout DDT and sing the praises of eucalyptus;
> Ron Gatrelle will continue to toss his hat in the ring, Mark will quote
> inflammatory sections of the Bible (but takes us along on wonderful road
> trips); Ken Philip will continue to provide the voice of reason when he
> can't stand it another minute, Chris Durden will provide balance ...
> Balance, that's the word I was looking for.
> But we all meet in that bloody ground where we shop at the supermarket
> and mourn Vincent Bourke's shop, so soon to go under.
> Few of us are comforted for the loss of the Xerces blue, by the fact
> that the exotic eucalyptus is just the place for the Monarch to roost.
> It is perhaps as well that we have among us at least one voice that
> defends and praises change, because after all, change is what we are are
> about, we human beings, and perhaps it is as well to take an honest look
> at it.
> Like it or not, the train has left the station, and somebody here had
> better learn how to drive. This sucker is a space ship, changes are
> taking place, and the matter at hand is that we must decide what we're
> taking with us, whether we're headed for Mall World tunneled into a
> snowball, or learning to control the planet's weather. Because anything
> we don't pack, it ain't going.
> On a trip like this, we need Paul, if only because he makes the
> scientists take the time to pause and explain to the rest of us why he
> is so disastrously wrong. Or, occasionally, actually quite right.
> We also need Neil, but Neil, Neil, you promised, keep it to your web
> page, just refer people there. I was around when He Who May Not Be Named
> was posting to this list, as part of his Community Service after his
> conviction ... and let's just leave it on the archives, please, we don't
> want to hear it all again.
> As part of my plan for Mall World, I'll be needing all those breeders to
> produce suitable butterflies for the plazas. What an opportunity to save
> all the other species as well?
> Let's not need to do that. But let us not eliminate the part of the
> population that will be able to do that, if need arises.
> Peace
> Anne Kilmer
> South Florida
>  ------------------------------------------------------------
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