animal torture for pleasure
agrkovich at tmpeng.com
Mon Jan 28 09:55:11 EST 2002
I have, myself, even recently began to wonder about for example, the
"Discovery Channel" itself, in terms of the validity of some of what is
being shown, and whether the "anti-scientific" element (which is to me is an
essential part of the animal activist movement). Now I watch the Discovery
Channel extensively ("Wild Discovery" etc.). But these repeated shows
documenting the existence of such creatures as the Loch Ness Monster, the
giant sloth, the giant anaconda etc. seem to be somewhat surreal. And even
the documentaries of such creatures of the brown recluse, the fire ants (and
I know someone who was bitten by a brown recluse about 20 years ago and lost
some of the flesh on his upper harm so I'm not suggesting the spider is not
dangerous) etc. It just seems that hype is creeping into an otherwise
excellent channel. Anti-science is everywhere, and I agree with Ron, the
anti-collecting mentality (which is the product in Lepidoptera of mostly
non-Lepidopterists) does definitely include targeting the scientists. I
think that for scientists to attempt to hide behind their "scientific
collecting permits" while the rest of us get scrxwed is unwise. Everyone
involved should be in on the fight. Here in my own stste, the recent post by
the "local authority" that two Elfins had been successfully petitioned for
"listing" was regarded by local "watchers" as a victory. Over whom, do you
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ron Gatrelle [SMTP:gatrelle at tils-ttr.org]
> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 5:18 PM
> To: Leps-l
> Subject: Re: animal torture for pleasure
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard Worth" <rworth at oda.state.or.us>
> To: <leps-l at lists.yale.edu>
> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 12:35 PM
> Subject: Re: animal torture for pleasure
> > This disturbs me a lot because there is some evidence that these are
> > the kind of people that move on to torturing peoples pets and other
> > animals and eventually rape and kill people. Not always but some do.
> > There is some deep psychological stuff going on there.
> > Rich
> As a minister and pastor I can tell you that Rich is absolutely right. We
> as a society need to pay a lot more attention to "infliction" patterns in
> little kids and teens. Why do they want to cause hurt - and who will they
> eventually hurt or perhaps kill?
> This is also why those who do collect need to wake up and put the 1+1
> together. When the hyper don't-hurt-the-butterfly group compare
> to killers this is why they do it. They are well aware of the fact that
> many rapist and murderers have histories of being sick kids with
> syndrome who hurt bugs, slugs, pets etc. They honestly think "we" enjoy
> this - or - that in teaching our kids to "kill" butterflies it will make
> them like the real G-man, Gordon G. Liddy (did I spell him correctly?)
> Let me rephrase this. They think collectors are actually bad people -
> criminals who should be locked away - and whose activity should be stopped
> 100%. Humm, I seem to remember someone who claims to be pro collecting
> often justifies his jugular attacks on individuals because he says they
> "bad" people.
> Let me refocus in on this a little further. What they (the radical micro
> minority) really want (if allowed to happen) would be to stop "scientific"
> collecting too. Look they are anti-collecting period. Can't we see that
> they really have lumped (not for science) but to put forth the falsehood
> that all species are scientifically known (esp. butterflies in the eastern
> US) and that therefore none should be (amateurs) nor _need be_
> Once they get the guns (nets) out of the hands of general society
> (recreational collectors) they will then move to disarm the military and
> police (scientists). If collecting is bad - then everyone who collects is
> a bad (wicked, perverse) person. This very vocal and active minority have
> the scientists fooled into thinking that they will not ultimately be the
> target too. This is indeed not about collecting and non-collecting with
> this element it is about anti-collecting.
> My post here is not about or against NABA or watchers or any such thing.
> (Though the radicals always jump in here to deflect attention from
> themselves by trying to make us think this is what posts like this are
> about ) This is a wake up call that these radical elements deserve to be
> offended and told to take their divisive venom elsewhere. Quit empowering
> them by meeting their every radical whim -- like them not even wanting the
> words "collect" or "voucher" mentioned! These people are classic
> fascists! These are the people who become enviro-terrorists. Lying is
> also one of their key tools. Thus, if they can't stop collecting they
> do their best to lie and manipulat the state DNS's and F&EW into "listing"
> everything they can possibly get them to list.
> Some will feel like posting a reply to me that I am making a mountain out
> of a mole hill and that there are so few of these people we just need to
> drop it. My answer to that is get your head out of the sand. If there
> were only 10 of these people in this whole country that would be 12 too
> many. It only took 10 people - five on each plane - to bring this country
> to its knees almost start world war three - and still may. Radicals count
> on the fools in the masses who do not understand the power of One.
> bin Laden, Jesus, King Jr., for good or for bad it only takes ONE to
> kill/save the whole bunch.
> Ron Gatrelle
> PS If you study Jim Jones you will find he did a great deal of real good
> before he led everyone to the Kool-aid.
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