killing butterflies for fun???

RENE BOUTIN rboutin at sympatico.ca
Sat Jul 6 09:47:56 EDT 2002


Well said again Mr.Walker
                                                          René from my insect
rearing units.

Mark Walker wrote:

> Neil wrote:
>
> > When you use an argument what doesn't address the real issue it is seen as
> > being evasive.
>
> I don't understand comments like this.  Those who've used the windshield
> argument (like myself, on occasion), are making their own point which is
> defined by its own issues.  Rejecting an argument based on its not
> addressing YOUR real issue is essentially the same as ignoring the argument
> - which I find far more evasive.
>
> The question is NOT one of volition, it is one of hypocrisy.  The argument
> insists that those who like to throw stones should put them down long enough
> to do some self-examination.
>
> Suppose there was this homosexual whom I constantly berated and hounded and
> publicly condemned because of immoral lifestyle.  And then suppose that you
> found out that I was prone to spending hours surfing porn or visiting strip
> joints.  You would accuse me of hypocrisy, and would get irate if I ever
> dared label another as immoral.
>
> The point is that we are ALL guilty of both intentionally killing insects
> and destroying their habitat.  We KNOW that driving kills bugs, and yet we
> CHOOSE to continue driving out of convenience.  We KNOW that developing
> shopping malls destroys habitat, but yet we CHOOSE to continue to shop at
> them out of convenience.  We KNOW that cultivating acres of produce results
> in spraying and other detrimental effects to the environment, and yet we
> CHOOSE to continue to eat.  We KNOW that buying virtually any product
> contributes to the demise of a species, and yet we CHOOSE to buy and sell.
> We KNOW that intentionally killing life is somehow worse than letting it
> live, and yet we CHOOSE to go to all costs towards eliminating unwanted
> creatures and plants from our immediate surroundings (ants, weeds,
> cockroaches, spiders, mosquitoes, wasps, flies, etc.).
>
> We're all guilty - some of us worse than others.  Those of use that take
> occasional specimens but otherwise are MORE sensitive to the impacts
> described above, do NOT appreciate being berated, hounded, or publicly
> condemned by those out there who are too ignorant to recognize their own
> hypocrisy.
>
> Mark Walker.
>
> >
> > It really is quite simple. I don't agree with the argument but I
> > understand
> > why it is put forward. It is a question of _volition_.  To extend your
> > analogy further a driver is driving a roadworthy vehicle down a street
> > quite
> > slowly within the legal speed limit, suddenly a small child runs out from
> > behind a parked car just feet in front of him and is killed. In this case
> > the
> > driver cannot be held to blame because he had no control over what
> > happens.
> > However driving carelessly though a crowd is something you _have_ control
> > over. The same is true for people who accidentally hit butterflies with
> > the
> > car it is _accidental_. The objection that these people have is to the
> > _deliberate_ killing of butterflies.
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >         From the _butterflies'_ point of view, drivers are far more of a
> > > menace, and most of the people who object to collecting would probably
> > > like to think that they are 'speaking for the butterflies'.
> >
> > > Why is it OK to kill myriads of insects as we go about our lives, but
> > > positively evil to pick out kill a single insect for one's curiosity
> > > about the natural world? Curiosity about the natural world is how I go
> > >about my life--so I fail to see the difference.
> > >
> > >                                                Ken Philip
> >
> > Let me reiterate that I am not interested in banning colllecting. I do not
> > believe that it is morally wrong to kill insects. However, some people do.
> > People do believe in odder things than that. There are people who believe
> > that native americans are decended from the lost tribes of israel!
> >
> > I quote Andrew Lees for two reasons.
> >
> > 1. He was an inspirational conservationist who helped conserve one of my
> > favourite wildlife sites in the UK and he died in Madagascar fighting to
> > save
> > a tropical forest. Like me he worked to conserve _habitats_ and I like his
> > quotation because it fits what I do.
> >
> > 2. When I was asked for help in designing the memorial. I suggested using
> > the
> > quote used in his obituary by the organisation for whom he worked.
> > Naturally
> > being a butterfly conservationist I would wouldn't I. :-) Using the
> > memorial
> > quote myself has therefore an element of irony that appeals to me.
> >
> > Next time I go to Crymlyn Bog I will have to take some pictures of the
> > memorial and the bog itself to put on the web.
> >
> > --
> > Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.butterflyguy.com/
> > "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the
> > butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog
> > National Nature Reserve
> >
> >
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