[leps-talk] Re: Miami Blue - list or save?

Wed May 1 09:40:43 EDT 2002

A very good point on listing or not.  Since the quino Checkerspot butterfly
(Euphydryas editha quino) was listed in 1997, it has caused much heartburn
to the development interests.  There is constant negotiations with the
wildlife agencies.  Listing a species, especially invertebrates, could cause
the demise of the creature instead of doing what it is suppose to do under
the Endangered Species Act (ESA) and that is to recover it.  I feel strong
about this since I am permitted to perform surveys for some listed wildlife
and see alteration of habitat that would be normally good for survival of a
particular species just so certain interests could be met.  In most cases it
was not for the benefit of the protected species.  In Southern California, I
believe the listing of Quino if anything showed us how little we know about
invertebrates and their biology.  Yes, if certain mitigating circumstances
show that existence of a species would be worse off if not protected, then
by all means protect it.

Personally I am seriously looking at one with David Faulkner for listing
because its demises is possible due to the huge demand for development and
fire management issues.  That is the Hermes Copper (Lycaena hermes).  Even
then there needs to be compelling evidence that protection will stabilize
and recover the species.  If not, I would not support a listing.

Michael Klein
San Diego
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Parcelles,Jr. [mailto:parcbob at aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 5:32 PM
To: MWalker at gensym.com; Leps Talk; Leps-List
Subject: [leps-talk] Re: Miami Blue - list or save?

--- Mark Walker <MWalker at gensym.com> wrote:
> I'm going to peep in on this thread, though I've provided little
> assistance
> to date on the project.
>
> Bob Parcelles wrote a few things here that I felt needed
> clarification:
>

Mark,

It has never been the purpose of the Miami Blue Butterfly Restoration
Project to  "get" the critter listed". Your very good points have
been covered by us many times. I just want to clarify that my post
was in reaction to one that Jeffrey Glassberg's protege sent to Anne
and widely distrubuted it, claiming his project to be the valid one
and that and other publicity expressed intense displeasure that the
butterfly was not immediately listed. All his efforts are in the
direction of speeding up and intensifying the action of listing. His
impatience and and dislike of the Federal Action so far has been made
very evident.

All of our plans to restore this host-plant "starved" subspecies are
predicated on it NOT BEING listed and that act will serve to keep us
from acomplishing our initial goals. The top butterfly guy, Glassberg
does not see this rather somple logic. I hope I have addressed your
questions without being too overly redundant. We have 3 little
colonies on Bahia Honda State Park (as of yesterday) with droves of
people trying to photgraph them and possibly hug and kiss them to
death. If people would put there money where there mouth is we would
get out 20,000 brochures and for that matter I have some very big
friends that like to camp and would manage "docents" who seem to be
coming out of the woodwork. So Mark, your comments are well placed
but I have to be a politician and say things that beat around the
bush.

Our goals are to plant host plants and get the population to a stable
enough point so it can have rearing activites to reintroduce into
suitable habitat. Anne has posted about 35 articles here and
elswwhere talking about all of the grass roots hoopla. Well it is
real simple we will do it with or withpout you, Glassberg or anybody
that apparently no longer wants to send seeds. We have merged with no
one and do not intend to.
I posted to this effect last night to Ed Reinertsen  who had
misgivings about working for Glassberg. I thought I answered that
pretty succinctly. apparently not since I have had no reply from him
with about 10 people a day asking me where to get the seeds he
promised. So now I have to fly in to the keys and answer these people
and then post to these arm chair warriors on this list.

So Mark I like that you have "peeped" in to this thread. that is
nioce and we like to hear from you right or wrong. But I suggest
instead of peeping you come in eyes wide open with your shirt sleeves
rolled up and help us.

If synchronizing with Dr. Kelley's efforts mean that we are working
for Glassberg, then I intend to go back on my word also. It seems to
be the soup of the day.

Actually if you want passive efforts Glassbereg has room for a few
more.

Your friend,

Bob

=====
Bob Parcelles, Jr
Pinellas Park, FL
RJP Associates & Clean Millennium Movement (C2M)
rjparcelles at yahoo.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/naturepotpourri
"Change your thoughts and you change your world."
- Norman Vincent Peale

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