numbers game or counting- Forgot something

[Todd Redhead]

Lynn,

I too, have wondered about the value of a 'moth' count as what moths you see will
depend on how you attract them.  Whether, sugaring, using UV or MV lights or just
leaving leaving the car headlights on - you will see different species.  In my
collecting in the Ottawa area (Smiths Falls) I've also seen a great variety of
species - much more than what I see in the Toronto area.  I think it has something
to do with a greater variety of habitat and foliage than around Toronto.

Todd

Lynn Scott wrote:

> I've been following this thread about counts with a kind of horrid
> fascination, and trying to imagine what I would be able to count if we had
> a one-night moth count in my area of Ottawa, Canada if I were the only
> person participating.  Answer is, anywhere from 0 to about 20 species at my
> location, in quantities anywhere from 0 to 25 or so, depending on the date,
> the weather, and how many times I actually looked to see what was
> there.  In actual fact, over 2000 species of lepidoptera have been recorded
> from the Ottawa area, and in just over two years within 25 feet of my own
> front door I have photographed at least 500 species, many of which I have
> yet to identify (and when I started taking pictures, I was naively
> expecting that there might be 50 or 100 different kinds of moth around
> here).  The problem is that many of these moths are very seasonal, and if
> you're not looking when they're flying, you simply won't know if they're
> flying in your area at all.  I assume the same would be true of many
> butterflies.
>
> So I guess my question is whether the purpose of these counts is to
> ascertain how many of "something" happen to be around at a particular time,
> or whether the purpose is to find out how many kinds of "something" happen
> to be around at all, or both?  And then there's also the question of
> whether a specific "something" is present at a time because it normally
> would be around at that time, or whether it is there because of some freak
> of wind and weather conditions.  Whatever the purpose of counting, it seems
> to me that a common understanding of that purpose and broadly consistent
> practices are needed, or the data accumulated in the count(s) may have
> rather limited use.
>
> My apologies if I sound as though I'm being deliberately obtuse.
>
> Lynn Scott
>
> At 03:30 PM 5/1/2002, Barb Beck wrote:
> >Michael,
> ><snip>
> >I feel some picture is much better than
> >none at all.
> <snip>
> >If I could not see that we are finding at least some useful information with
> >these counts I would not be busting my tail to get a bunch of them off the
> >ground nor would I be spending my time trying to assure that things are
> >reported correctly.  <snip>
> >Barb Beck
> >Edmonton
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Michael Gochfeld [mailto:gochfeld at eohsi.rutgers.edu]
> >Sent: May 1, 2002 4:58 AM
> >To: Barb Beck
> >Cc: cmbb at sk.sympatico.ca; Lepslist; TILS-leps-talk at yahoogroups. com
> >Subject: Re: numbers game or counting- Forgot something
> >
> >
> >I certainly agree that a single count in early summer can't represent a
> >butterfly fauna in a meaningful way.  In our club I've tried to
> >encourage people to select a particular place (park, powerline cut, etc,
> >to census every 2-4 weeks throughout the season.  I do this behind our
> >house.
> >
> >But it lacks the party atmosphere of an annual count.  MIKE GOCHFELD
> >
> >Barb Beck wrote:
> > >
> > > Martin pointed out something I left off.
> > >> The fact that we have only one butterfly count per summer is a real flaw
> >in
> > > the setup.  There should be several to correspond to our various butterfly
> > > seasons.  Hopefully as we get more people involved we will be able to do
> > > more than that.  Right now we are just getting snapshots at one time of
> >the
> > > year per circle.  In some areas like around Edmonton we have many counts
> >and
> > > run some of them early and others late but in the rest of the province we
> > > just do not have the manpower. We are getting snapshots around the
> >province
> > > on a variety of consistent dates since it is not convenient to hold them
> >on
> > > the 4th of July Date.  Our routes that are associated with BBS route and
> >the
> > > Cold Lake Count which is held in conjunction with a University field trip
> > > are end of May - early June each year.  These counts must be held then
> > > because it is the only time the people are in that  area on a consistent
> > > basis.  Our mountain counts are late and we have a few counts near
> >Edmonton
> > > which are held late each year.  In other words we are getting snapshots
> > > under the current rules of butterflies at various seasons but
> >unfortunately
> > > not multiple snapshots per season at one place.
> > >> It would be nice if the rules were amended for multiple counts in one
> >circle
> > > BUT right now I would just like to see the species we have properly
> >recorded
> > > and not have our data lost by the practice of "conservative taxonomy".
> > >> Barb Beck
> > > Edmonton, Alberta
> >
> >
> >
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