Miami Blue ACTION!

Thu May 2 14:05:03 EDT 2002

Norbert, Ron, Barb and everyone,

In the United States of America, any citizen can make a case for listing a
species. It is up to the Secretary of the Interior (or the Secretary of Commerce
for marine species -- an odd situation) and the Secretary's experts to decide
whether or not to list.

It is possible to assess vulnerability to extinction. There is a vast literature
on the subject, some of it by me. A very recent collection of papers is S. R.
Beissinger and D. R. McCullough 2002, Population Viability Analysis, U Chicago
Press. I believe that Morris and Doak will be soon updating the freely available
(by WWW) Nature Conservancy booklet on the subject.

There certainly is politics, legalism and all manner of other foolishness in the
listing process, but there is also some science, and the Endangered Species Act
explicitly states that the best available science must be used. It is up to us
to make better science available.

I am not on the ground in Florida, and nothing I say here should suggest that I
know what is best for the Miami Blue. I am saddened and dismayed that the NABA
leadership has not found a way to work more constructively with the naturalists
and scientists on the spot. However I do detect a little wild-thinking in some
posts on this. For example: Do butterfly watchers actually trample more habitat
than collectors? Is it really wrong to reveal locations especially if they are
State protected to some extent? Do you think that Jeffrey Glassberg is more
influenced by an overweening desire for fame or by a natural reluctance to
collaborate with groups that devote half of their public energy to attacking him
and NABA?

Obviously, many people associated with the Miami Blue project are also
associated with NABA. You must feel very torn about this and my sympathies to
you. I wish the NABA leadership would clear up their reasoning about failures to
cooperate. It is remarkable how easy it is to get preschoolers to recognize the
need to cooperate (even against their first impulses), and how hard it is to
convince adults, even those with a lot of experience in the world and a
knowledge of history.

Patrick Foley
patfoley at csus.edu

"Kondla, Norbert FOR:EX" wrote:

> Listing is nothing more than a legal device to exercise power in a society
> where the rule of law prevails. It is there as a safety valve to be used
> when deemed necessary by those who have statutory authority to make said
> decision. Vulnerability of any species is another interesting topic and has
> no single definition in my mind. No species is any more or less vulnerable
> than any other species. Context and definition is everything here. Every
> species is vulnerable to extirpation by a falling asteroid. Vulnerable to
> what is the operative concept. If organism X is negatively affected by a
> prevailing and increasing human activity; we eventually realize that it is a
> candidate for affirmative action to keep it around; if we so chose. Social
> choice -- heros and villains are a matter of perspective and values
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Patrick Foley [mailto:patfoley at csus.edu]
> Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 8:48 AM
> To: Ron Gatrelle
> Cc: Leps-l; naturepotpourii
> Subject: Re: Miami Blue ACTION!
>
> Ron,
>
> If the butterfly is listed, then the agency in charge of the site will
> certainly have to find a way to ward off any "watching" activity that
> results
> in damage to the critical habitat.
>
> Listing is not a matter of what would be convenient for you or me or J
> Glassberg. It is a matter of ascertaining the level of vulnerability of the
> species.
>
> Patrick Foley
> patfoley at csus.edu
>
> Ron Gatrelle wrote:
>
> > Amid all the retoric and public posturing to the cameras and microphones,
> > what is the most important _on site_ action that has occurred relative to
> > the Miami Blue situation in south Florida?
> >
> > There is a clear and unambiguious answer to that one.  It was Jeff
> > Glassberg's announcemnt to the world of exactly where the butterfly _site_
> > was located.
> >
> > What is the result of this action?  The destruction of the only known
> > habitat area for this butterfly by _butterfly watchers_ and likely the
> > death of trampled larvae on the plants.    The following is from our MBBRP
> > team who visited the location only to find this horror story.  Some
> > bracketed remarks for clairity add by me.
> >
> > "...But what distresses me [Bob Parcelles] most is that a team [from
> > MBBRP]with a complete support staff funded by the Coffy-Mellon Foundation,
> > under the auspices of Joe Coffy, went this week to the [state] park and
> > found large numbers of sight seeer's,(sp?) photographers and tourists
> (many
> > from Germany) all over the habitat of the Miami Blue with quite a toll
> > taken of the plants.  We located bugs in a perilous situations.   Several
> > "classes" were given and a few individuals were also educated in the
> > strongest terms to NOT walk on the remaining individuals of this
> > subspecies. Were these the "docents".   Contain this situation.please!!!
> > If we had the money we would place armed guards there immediately."
> >
> > Since Glassberg's announcement (action), there has evidently  been a
> steady
> > stream of watchers to the area to get their trophy photo of the insect.
> > (And this is as expected as this was allegedly the reason the location was
> > divulged - so the watchers could go "watch".)  Collectors are often
> > inferred to be - evil collectors.   Well, here we have a perfect example
> > of - evil watchers.  But they are only following the lead of one who
> spends
> > days in endangered species habitat trampling marsh and (bug?) to get their
> > own trophy photograph.
> >
> > In the above quote, Bob's remark of "Contain this situation.please!!!"
> was
> > directed to one Robert Kelley who is apparently now one of Jeff's main
> > functionaries in regard to the NABA version of helping this butterfly.
> > Here is Dr. Kelley's response.
> >
> > "It would seem that the State Park people need to fence off that area
> ASAP,
> > and I will be contacting Renate Skinner, the regional biologist to see if
> > that can be done."
> >
> > Why a fence?  To keep the _watchers_ out and off the plants.  Why are they
> > there?  Because Jeff Glassberg told them exactly where to go.  Who is the
> > fence trying to keep out?   NABA members?  Who is wanting a fence?  Kelly,
> > a NABA leader.
> >
> > I seem to remember an old story that went around years ago about another
> > fence.  This one was installed by Jeff himself, if my memory serves me
> > correctly, to keep "collectors" away from a Mitchell's Satyr colony.   Now
> > we need another fence to keep "watchers" (not poachers) off the only known
> > Miami Blue site.   Lesson.  It is people in general who are bad, not the
> > avenue they choose to interact with leps.   There are just as many "evil
> > watchers" as there are "evil collectors".   Actually, that is likely not
> > true as there are 4 or 5 or 10 times as many watchers as collectors.   By
> > sheer expediential numbers there are more bad apples in any bigger bunch.
> > Conversely, there are as many good guy collectors, breeders, etc as there
> > are good buy watchers.  However, at this point the reality is that the
> main
> > thing (by far) butterfly needs help being protected from are those who
> want
> > to watch them.
> >
> > Ron Gatrelle
> >
> > PS  Listing this butterfly as "endangered" will not stop this watching
> > danger.  The colony is already protected from collectors as it is located
> > in a Fl State Park.
> >
> >
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