[leps-talk] Miami Blue

[Nigel Venters]

Neil is correct in much of what he says....however a "Can do" attitude is
required...and after all attempt at getting the habitat right it is
certainly worth many every attempt to succeed! Though much of my working
life I
have come across people who are defeated before they start..."You'll never
do it" is a common attitude and often is a factor in any project failing.

Neil mentions  Lycaenids succeeding best in reintroduction...what he doesn't
say if that the British Large Blue (Maculinea arion) became extinct in UK
and was reintroduced using Scandinavian stock...stock originating in a
totally different climate zone and having a different flight time to the
original British stock. The reintroduced stock has done quite well in some
areas and have adjusted to emerge at the same time as the original British
stock. So this just shows you what can be done! The ethics of introducing a
non-native species is another matter!

Many attempts have been made with many species over the years..Winston
Churchill attempted to reintroduce the Black Veined White (A. crataegi..and
Also extinct in UK) using foreign stock...as he just released Continental
stock on his land without giving any thought to the butterflies requirements
this failed...but at the turn of the Century the Comma (P. c-album) was very
rare and restricted to an area near the Welsh border...repeated attempts to
reintroduce to other areas failed...but now it has done so by itself....and
is a common garden butterfly in all of Southern England and is extending
it's range
still further North.

I'm not sure that Silk Moth Bombyx mori is a good example to use when
discussing captive stock changing....none of us will live long enough!
Bombyx mori has been domesticated for thousands of years and is not much
different from any other
domesticated animal...and we all know that many domesticated animals
couldn't survive in the wild if released! Captive stock is not so very
different from the wild stock for species that live in closed isolated
colonies, but of course in time natural selection would favour the captive
conditions imposed....rather than the area the stock originated from.
Nigel

----- Original Message -----
From: "Neil Jones" <neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk>
To: "Johnson, Kurt" <JohnsonK at Coudert.com>; <John.Calhoun at SempermedUSA.com>;
"'Anne Kilmer'" <viceroy at GATE.NET>
Cc: "'TILS-leps-talk at yahoogroups. com (E-mail)'"
<TILS-leps-talk at yahoogroups.com>; "'LEPS-L at LISTS. YALE. EDU (E-mail)'"
<LEPS-L at lists.yale.edu>; "'LEPSRUS at communities. msn. com (E-mail)'"
<LEPSRUS at communities.msn.com>; "'Steve Bass'" <scbass at ci.boca-raton.fl.us>;
"'David Fine'" <Vladnuts at aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: [leps-talk] Miami Blue


> On Thursday 02 May 2002 09:49 pm, Johnson, Kurt wrote:
> > John is right that captive breeding/ release is complex esp. when a
> > specific life history in a specific region is not well know.  The good
news
> > is that at least within "blues" in general there are good models for
> > successful reintroduction protocols (Toledo Zoo re reseeding the Ohio
Pine
> > Breaks with the Karner Blue; same process then followed in Indiana by
> > Nature Conservancy and in Ontario by Canadian group); and, at least
blues
> > are fairly easy to rear.  But, there are always the detailed questions
of
> > specific life histories and ecological situations-- e.g. whether to
"seed"
> > as eggs, larvae, adults, combinations etc. and where re suitable habitat
> > for sustainence of a population etc.
>
> Releasing butterfies to create new colonies is a popular passtime here in
the
> UK. However, the research has shown quite conclusively that the vast
majority
> of attempts _fail_. Fortunately where it succeeds best seems to be with
the
> Lycaenids. The work with the Large Blue (Maculinea arion) has shown some
> sucesses but also some failures. This is where a tremendous amount of work
on
> the ecolocy of the species has been done. It is of course a phenomenally
> complex species as it needs both a foodplant and the grubs of a sensitive
ant
> species to feed off. It is almost impossible to breed in captivity too.
>
> Then there is the question of  adaptation to captivity. Without trying  to
do
> so,. if  you rear in captivity you will breed a race adapted to captivity.
> This has been shown with fruit flies to happen fairly quickly. If you want
a
> lepidopterous example look at the Silk Moth Bombyx mori. Its larvae do not
> wander and its adults cannot fly. It is perfectly adapted to captivity but
> could never survive in the wild.
>
>  The sub-tropical Cyclargus seem to be
> > highly vagrant; this introduced another caveate into the soup.  So, yes,
it
> > is going to have to be some not only well thought out but tooled and
> > probably re-tooled as it moves along.  But, there is a TREMENDOUSLY
> > important job that the education part has to do with:  and that is the
> > public's overall awareness and willingness to go to bat for a butterfly
> > when business interests/land development/ money may be working against
it.
> > Regarding the Karner Blue this has been the real Achille's Heal.  Around
> > Albany and the pitch pine savannahs there is real lack of general public
> > support for the Karner Blue (punctuated only by dedicated support groups
> > like "Save the Pine Bush").  More people need to "CARE" about the
species;
> > so, one shouldn't consider John's reply to Anne a brush-off.  Actually
the
> > educational/awareness work is just as important if not more so re:
carrying
> > the publics willingness to protect these little fellows.
>
> Actually PR and education are _vitally_ important BUT you must give out
the
> right message.
>
> --
> Neil Jones- Neil at nwjones.demon.co.uk http://www.butterflyguy.com/
> NOTE NEW WEB ADDRESS
> "At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the
> butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn Bog
> National Nature Reserve
>
>
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